2026.09.29 | TB | Software | Le Wagon: AI & No-Code Training Market

Client-led • 18 Feb 2026

Expert Former Senior Executive at Le Wagon Inc

Alessandro Rossi (Client) — Third Bridge Sector Analyst

Agenda

• Extensive experience in the tech training space, focusing on digital product, full-stack programming bootcamps and career transition models
• Well-placed to discuss Le Wagon, Contournement and Alegria's competitive positioning and platform differentiation
• Deep insights into technical education, low- and no-code tools, AI integration, pedagogical delivery models, trainer recruitment strategies, course update cycles and public funding mechanisms
• Disclaimer: This transcript has been translated from the language in which the interview was conducted. The translation process included the use of artificial intelligence. This translation may contain errors or omissions and may alter the nuance, emphasis, or meaning of the original statements. Third Bridge does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of the translation. Only the translated version is published; the original-language transcript is not made available.

Introduction

Client [00:00:59]: We’re looking at the market for AI, no-code and low-code training – mainly B2C online training, with a bit of B2B as well. We’re looking at players such as Contournement, Alegria and Noxcod. We wanted to gain a better understanding of market trends, what sets these players apart from one another, the risks you see in this market and the challenges involved in its development.

Questions

00:03:13] From what we understand today, Le Wagon is basically training for developers to learn how to code and it has shifted focus towards AI with technological developments. There have been a few difficulties in recent months and years, haven't there?

Expert [00:03:50]: Starting in 2023-24, AI really took off, and there was a slight reversal in the trend among our cohorts, meaning that more and more people started doing data science programmes. Data analysis, data engineering, and fewer and fewer people doing web development. Today, they have reintegrated AI into the curriculum. The curriculum has evolved over the past two years, and the founders no longer have much control over the subject.

00:06:08] In terms of its business model, did Le Wagon focus solely on B2C? Apparently, there are quite a few players offering B2C services in the form of bootcamps. There are programmes lasting a few hours, slightly longer ones lasting a few months, and sometimes even work-study programmes lasting up to a year. Alongside this, they do a bit of B2B, offering no-code and low-code training to businesses, with average basket values that are obviously higher and CAC [customer acquisition cost] — compared to IoT — that is slightly more favourable in B2B than in B2C.

Expert [00:06:57]: No. Similarly, in 2019, Le Wagon for Business [was launched], which was really the B2B branch of Le Wagon. It took a while to recruit the right people because Covid hit right after that. Typically, in 2024, Le Wagon's B2B activity was doing very well, with very high average contract values. No, actually, it's a bit inaccurate to talk about average basket values, since there is such a disparity between customers and ticket sizes, but you had tickets worth EUR 70,000. There were customers who spent EUR 70,000 almost every year.

00:08:03] The B2B business is about training. It's the same training courses that were offered in B2C, but now sold to businesses?

Expert [00:08:13]: No, the offer was much richer. Really, the bootcamp and reskilling approach was obviously not in high demand by corporations, which have other things to do. It was mainly either evangelisation/introduction or upskilling. The real demand was for upskilling approaches lasting a week, for example. That was the sweet spot. When it comes to training, you'll always have the same question, do you do face-to-face or online? There was a huge trend for MOOCs, which we saw with Le Wagon some years ago, with OpenClassrooms and all that. OpenClassrooms isn't doing very well, I think. That's gone out of fashion a bit because B2B players have realised that online is good, but it has its limitations. Overall, we've seen a big comeback and a big appetite for either face-to-face or online but synchronous training.

00:10:20] What are update cycles? Is it months or weeks?

Expert [00:10:25]: Now, it's quite a long time. Then, the subject that you have a lot of on these specific low-code, no-code topics, there are quite a few players. Historically, three types of clients, if I may summarise those who wanted to change jobs, those who wanted to start a freelance business, and those who wanted to start their own company. Those are the three profiles, more or less. In 2024, when there was a bit of a crisis, these three profiles changed a little because in times of crisis, people are less keen to leave their jobs to train for a new career because we know that jobs are becoming scarcer. Entrepreneurship and freelancing are also a little more daunting. These are not necessarily the most favourable times for this type of business. In my opinion, in 2024, some players were still feeling the effects of this dynamic.

Low-code and no-code players are always very interesting to watch because they often position themselves on one of these three axes. If you take Contournement, for example is a big focus, "improve yourself, get skilled, be more efficient in your work". Alegria, you really have a business perspective. It's about money.

00:12:57] Is Alegria really geared towards the self-employed, whereas Contournement is more for employees and staff who want to free up some time at work?

Expert [00:13:07]: I have that impression. What I find quite interesting, I don't know if it's good or bad, but it's that Alegria is the only school I see among all the actors that exist that plays a little with the codes of personal development, coaching, that kind of thing. That's both good and bad. It's good because, obviously, it sells very well, because you can see that today, people are very interested in this type of content, whether it's rental investment. Then again, I don't know if it's very effective in terms of branding and image because it's a bit detrimental to the product premium positioning, and I think these are products that need to remain premium, especially if you're selling them at a high price. Alegria, I saw that they were selling some very expensive stuff, from memory. Some of their programmes are very expensive.

00:14:11] It is difficult to compare training courses, as their duration and content vary. Is Alegria – at least in terms of price – at the higher end of the market compared with Contournement or its competitors?

Expert [00:14:30]: Alegria, I get the impression that they have a basic offer, if I summarise correctly, which fits into the CPF basket, and behind that, they have products at EUR 15,000, EUR 20,000 and EUR 30,000. Frankly, from memory, I saw some huge amounts.

Client [00:14:50]: Alegria offers work-study programmes in which a large proportion of the costs is covered by the company, and public subsidies for apprenticeships are increasing. Price elasticity is clearly higher for the work-study component.

Expert [00:15:11]: They have a strong focus on coaching.

00:15:15] In our view, Alegria is a major player in the AI and no-code sector. The company was founded by an entrepreneur who is regarded as a guru and embodies the entrepreneurial spirit. It is very focused on becoming experts in specific tools such as Airtable. That is how we see the situation at this stage. To be honest, we are less familiar with Contournement.

Expert [00:16:01]: It's a good read. Besides, I'm not sure I'm keen on this ultra-personalisation of Alegria.

Client [00:16:14]: Do you mean the founder?

Expert [00:16:16]: Yes, because it's very much linked to the guy. He seems very nice.

Client [00:16:32]: We don’t really know him. Do you know him a bit?

Expert [00:16:41]: I've met him a few times at events. He's nice. You can see very clearly that the branding is closely linked to him. I did two roadshows and hundreds of coffee meetings. At some point, when it comes to training, you don't want to overcomplicate things. You have the NPS, which is the level of satisfaction with the programme. Regardless of the company you're auditing, regardless of the format, in practical terms, these are pragmatic things that are always the same. It's the NPS or possibly the ratings. Basically, it has to be almost 5/5 across several hundred or even thousands of reviews. Your delivery gross margin should be around 80-85%.

00:18:21] What do you mean by pedagogical margin?

Expert [00:18:23]: The delivery teaching margin is what you have left after paying instructors and other teaching costs. That should be around 85%. You don't include rent in that. If your pedagogical margin is 70%, 60% or 65%, it means your teachers are too expensive and the business is less profitable.

00:19:01] Does this sector require strong teaching skills or is it more of a field where you need to be good at sales and where aggressive marketing – as Alegria does – is enough to stand out? We’ve seen quite a few businesses of this kind come and go. One of your main cost drivers was CPA [cost per action]. In this sector, is it marketing or the quality of your courses that sets you apart?

Expert [00:19:45]: I can answer that in several points. The first thing is that some of the elements I mentioned are actually elements of hidden marketing. NPS is a marketing element, i.e., the proportion of your content and programme that generates acquisition via your promoters. That, in itself, is a form of marketing. Education and training are medium- to long-term businesses. I think the most important element is quality. Because quality is what pays off in the end. The thing is, if you see Google reviews for a programme, and they're terrible, then ultimately, it's not going to work. The thing is, because there's a lot of public money involved in training, you sometimes get clever people who come and collect the public money and then go and do something else. Typically, you can look it up, but there was something called École française. I don't know if you've seen it.

I'm going to give you some figures that aren't good. We saw École française appear briefly and then disappear with the CPF. These are guys who arrive, grab lots of public money, do lots of advertising, lots of communication, lots of adverts everywhere, generate tens of millions in EBITDA and then disappear. Look at École française, it's quite interesting. They ended up being bought out.

Client [00:21:30]: Was École française acquired by Eduservices?

Expert [00:21:32]: That's right. However, these are deals where there's maximum burnout, from what I understand.

00:21:47] We’re thinking of the CPF [compte personnel de formation; personal training programme] and there’s also the possibility of apprenticeship grants. What were the main sources of public funding Le Wagon had?

Expert [00:22:05]: Overall, it was still quite low compared to competitors like Simplon at the time. You had CPF, but with CPF, there was necessarily a remaining balance because you have programs that cost EUR 7,000 or EUR 8,000. Otherwise, you had Pôle Emploi funding via the AIF. Then you had POI and POEC funding, which are OPCO funds.

00:22:50] As far as we are aware, the formal sector – where you undertake training and obtain a qualification that may or may not be recognised by the state – is far more resilient than the informal sector, where you receive no qualification upon completion. Does Le Wagon award a diploma or a certificate?

Expert [00:23:25]: Sure.

Client [00:23:25]: Did this allow trained individuals to seek employment with other companies or not?

Expert [00:23:34]: Yes. There are RNCP certifications, which are in-house certifications. There was one in web development, one in data science, and one in data analysis. From memory, it was the same certification in data, but with a branch. To be honest, these certifications are not easy to obtain. It's a lot of work, which greatly penalises small organisations that don't have the resources or time to devote to these subjects.

Client [00:24:14]: Are these state-certified diplomas?

Expert [00:24:16]: You have two topics. I'll give you a quick summary. Basically, there are what are known as diplomas, which are overseen by the Department of Education. These include school diplomas, university degrees. Then you have professional certifications. These are listed in the RNCP, the National Directory of Professional Certifications. This is overseen by the Department of Labor. It's not quite the same thing, but the qualifications listed in the RNCP are equivalent to a high school diploma plus something extra.

00:24:57] Did Le Wagon have certifications, which is not the case for all online training providers?

Expert [00:25:05]: This isn't always the case for all actors, but again, it's something you need to know. You can rent a certification. Often, actors who don't have their own certification have two options. I'm sorry, it's a bit technical, it's a bit boring. Again, check what I'm telling you because these rules can change very quickly. Without these certifications, you don't have access to CPF and all that funding. Either you have your certification internally, which was the case for Le Wagon. It's super complicated to do, and it has value behind it.

Then, when you sell, it's the thing that makes you valuable. Either you don't have it, and in that case, you have two options. The first is what we call the specific directory. These are a kind of state certification. The government created them. They're not from organisations like Le Wagon or others. There, you can pass on a skill that is registered with the RS. Either, you rent the certification from a third party. For example, Simplon, at one point, they were in trouble because they didn't have Data Analysis certification, and they had Data Analysis training, and they needed funding.

In truth, this is absolutely scandalous because the reality is that the government, in this case France Compétences, is doling out authorisations and certifications sparingly, since you don't want to have 4,000 cybersecurity certifications, 4,000 data science certifications. It's a bit like first come, first served, and what's more, the first to be served is the one who can serve the soup to his friends and get his share,

Client [00:27:26]: Does that mean the government has no control over what Le Wagon was leasing to its competitor in terms of certification?

Expert [00:27:35]: He has indirect control. Because if you mess up with your certification and rent it out to anyone, and anyone can pass it, and you don't control it, the government will revoke your certification. You can't just do whatever you want.

Client [00:28:19]: To what extent does this act as a barrier to entry for new competitors, whether it be Contournement or Alegria? I don’t know if they have the necessary certifications. Is this a genuine barrier to entry or not?

Expert [00:28:33]: Honestly, not really. It's obviously good, but frankly, it's not really a barrier to entry. Especially in a context where they are reforming the CPF. It's obviously something that adds value, but it's not a barrier to entry. A small, savvy player who delivers quality and wants to get started will succeed quite easily. All this no-code, low-code stuff, for me, is mainly a syllabus topic at the moment, meaning that everything is moving extremely fast, so you have to be able to change very quickly. Historical Investors in education are people who invest in education. When you are used to investing in education, you buy schools, you create groups like Galileo. When you buy schools, you are used to businesses whose P&L is written for the next 3-4 years. Because when kids start school, they stay there for 3-4 years.

Client [00:30:20]: Yes, you get a break. Every year, you have cohorts.

Expert [00:30:23]: Exactly. It's hardly even a break. It's a four-year client. It's a fixed-term contract. Historically, all these players, and obviously education and training, are a bit like the goose that lays the golden eggs. Because all these big funds were investing, buying schools. It's extremely comfortable because you have three, four, five years ahead of you where you know how much you're going to earn. That was kind of the historical thing.

Behind that, it obviously became concentrated. Once it was well concentrated, of course, there are always small schools to buy here and there, but the bulk of it is already concentrated in the hands of OMNES, Galileo, and the like. They've moved on to other hunting grounds, in this case, professional training, for example.

00:34:34] The training market has struggled over the last 1-2 years in terms of learning. Several online training providers have gone under and Le Wagon has also faced difficulties. Online training is a challenging sector as it requires a great deal of active marketing and course updates. Fixed costs are high and competition is fierce. We cannot afford to see our turnover fall, as we have little control over costs. This is how we view these players at this stage. We find it difficult to identify factors that set them apart from one another and to say that one is better positioned than another.

Expert [00:35:34]: No. For your information, on the CAC, the orders of magnitude were 8-12%.

Client [00:35:45]: However, we agree that you don't have repeats?

Expert [00:35:52]: No. That's what's terrible. That's really tough because then, every quarter, you have to go out and find students. That's very complicated.

Client [00:36:07]: It's not that significant, 8-12%?

Expert [00:36:12]: No, that's fine.

Client [00:36:15]: When we looked at the actors, there was much more.

Expert [00:36:17]: Yes, I know. I'm talking about when we were there. It's to give you a frame of reference. You have several things going for you, though, you have quality, that plays a part. Quality, in education, you can't really sell it, meaning that tomorrow you have a new school opening. You still have quality, and then you have a second thing that's pretty key, which is community. Despite everything, you have a virtuous effect from alumni, meaning that companies with large alumni networks often have… For me, having a very large alumni network is sometimes almost a bigger barrier to entry than a certification.

00:37:23] Were the trainers at Le Wagon former students of Le Wagon or did you recruit them from outside?

Expert [00:37:37]: Same thing, as I was saying, the key is really to maintain a super tight pedagogical margin. To maintain this great pedagogical margin, you only have one solution, which is to have a pool of teachers. Because if you don't have enough teachers in your pool, you get left behind because they negotiate prices. If you were a student at Le Wagon, at the end of the batch, would select the best ones and offer them the chance to be assistant instructors on the following batches. Then, after one or two batches as assistant instructors, would offer them the chance to become full instructors. That was continuous because otherwise, if you don't have enough teachers, the guys say, “No, I don't want EUR 150 a day, I want EUR 500.”

Client [00:38:30]: Are they all freelancers?

Expert [00:38:34]: They're all freelancers. Typically, for example, when you launch a new bootcamp, your pedagogical margin is terrible at first because you have to pay data scientists or people with super high daily rates to be teachers for the first batches. That's where you shell out. It's expensive. You have to invest, and then, as the batches go by, you manage to build up this alumni base. That's what allows you to control your teaching costs. For example, someone who has a few salaried teachers, a somewhat old-fashioned model, so to speak, I think it's really very complicated to scale and I think it hurts margins enormously.

00:40:01] Low-code and no-code technologies are making big waves, but is this a trend that will last? Is this really a sector with great potential?

Expert [00:40:21]: First of all, I would say that things are so complicated right now that it's difficult to play Nostradamus. If I try to think without making wild predictions, what I see is that there has been a very strong trend towards the commoditisation of code and programming, meaning that programming is increasingly becoming a commodity. This has a huge impact on what low-code and no-code could or could not become. My point is that I don't know how far behind no-code and low-code are already in relation to what we call vibe coding and agents.

Client [00:41:20]: We provide strategic advice and do a lot of work for investment funds. They don’t just look ahead to the coming year or the next six months, they’re thinking 10 years down the line. For us, what’s a bit daunting in this field is ending up a bit like Le Wagon did a few years ago, with the feeling that we’re falling behind because, year after year, we’re forced to overhaul all our courses. You’ve been presented a bit as the expert in the future of web development, it’s no longer just web development, it’s something else, and you’ve been taking a bit of flak for a few years because you can’t anticipate it. It’s difficult to anticipate.

Expert [00:42:00]: On that point, I think that no-code and low-code were good for people who didn't know how to code. Once you have tools like Claude Code or similar, which allow you to do things with very little knowledge. If I were at the helm of Le Wagon today, we would run a very simple three-day programme explaining how APIs work, how the command line works and how Claude Code works. At that point, you can do pretty much everything you do in no-code, low-code. Because low-code and no-code are nothing more than API building blocks that people put together with Make or Wappler.

00:42:52] Were there people within Le Wagon who were constantly keeping up with technological developments? How did that work?

Expert [00:43:01]: [Le Wagon] already had a very large team of engineers because had our own dedicated tools in-house. There was a platform called Kitt. That was a lot more than you would find in any school. [Le Wagon] had quite a few high-quality tools, and it was by working on those tools that they also kept an eye on developments. Personally, I think that some of the approaches today are still a bit discreet. Have you seen Pollen or not?

Client [00:43:49]: By name, but if you could tell us more.

Expert [00:43:52]: Pollen, basically, is a series of workshops where they bring in the big names. Basically, you have someone from OpenAI coming to do a workshop on ChatGPT. I find this approach really interesting because it's ultra-premium, with super-competent people. I'm saying it's interesting, not necessarily that it's profitable. The branding is pretty clean. You can check it out. It was created by a former Wagon student named Olivier Xu, who is great. There's another thing I like, but again, you're going to tell me it's not training, but it is training. It was launched by Riot. Their website is tryriot.com. Basically, it's training, it's cybersecurity. It's full B2B. They send out phishing campaigns, phishing text messages, and they do something very realistic, they train teams that way. I find that really interesting. What's more, it's a very successful company. I think it's already doing 10m in ARR to date. That's training. In this case, you don't really have to update the content because you're constantly training people. In AI, for example, there's a guy called Ruben Hassid. You probably know who he is. He's a really interesting guy. He's become something of a leading figure on GenAI.

Why does it work? It works because today, when it comes to aspirations and so on, I think people are starting to lose interest in tech topics. That's the first thing. Take companies like L'Atelier des Chefs, for example. A few years ago, L'Atelier des Chefs was completely stuck. Today, they're booming because they offer training courses for plumbing certificates and floristry certificates. At one point, we really saw what we called aspirational training courses shift towards this type of training, and training budgets are now directed more towards this than towards tech topics. When it comes to tech subjects, things are changing so much that the approach needs to be more about monitoring, newsletters and content updates. I don't think it's easy to set training courses in stone.

Client [00:47:02]: Is a 12-15 month training programme too long?

Expert [00:47:07]: Definitely. It's too long if it was training that you didn't associate with a lot of monitoring. That's where you see the strength of a community, for example, in that the more active and present your community is, the more you can work on monitoring, gathering information and so on. There's no other way. Honestly, when it comes to training topics today, I would go for things that have nothing to do with tech, I don't know, a piano bootcamp, things that are really AI-proof and tech-proof. When it comes to tech topics, I think I'd already be looking ahead to the next wave, namely the whole agentic revolution that's coming with vibe coding, and I'd take a much more subscription-based approach with newsletters, monitoring, what Ruben Hassid is doing.

Client [00:48:21]: Will you be selling that to Omnes Education in two years?

Expert [00:48:25]: I don't know if it's worth it when it comes to AI, low-code and no-code. For me, for example, the best teacher for learning, Claude, is Claude. Do you really need to pay Jean-Luc to teach you about Claude when Claude would teach you better than Jean-Luc? For me, the value in these highly technical subjects lies in your ability to update content and bring together communities, people and volume. It's true that we've seen a number of training courses spring up. It's crazy.