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2026.10.01 | TB | Chemicals | Air Liquide: Margin Pressure Check

原标题：Air Liquide – Compressing Margins or Holding Pressure?

#chemicals

Third Bridge · 2026-10-01

Analyst-led • 17 Sep 2026

Companies: AI FR, APD US, LIN US

Judith Vaca (JV) Independent Consultant

Georgia Beattie (GB) — Third Bridge Sector Analyst

Agenda

Key Insights

Introduction

GB [00:00:04]: Welcome to Third Bridge's Interview entitled Air Liquide – Compressing Margins or Holding Pressure? My name is Georgia Beattie and I'm fortunate to be joined today by Judith Vaca, former Commercial and Marketing Manager, Industrial Merchant at Air Liquide.

Judith, before we start today's Interview, please state I agree or I disagree to the following statement: You understand the definition of material non-public information and agree not to disclose any such information, or any other information which is confidential, during this Interview.

JV [00:00:36]: I agree.

GB [00:00:37]: Could you begin with a brief introduction to your background and your time at Air Liquide?

JV [00:00:48]: I've been working in the gas industry for over 30 years, working not only for Colombian market but as well for South America and in some period for USA, in which I had the opportunity to work as well for Air Liquide. Although my former company was the Linde Group, that was before AGA company, I started working for Air Liquide in the Colombian market 10 years ago. It was really during the period of the entrance of Air Liquide into Colombia from 2016-25. After activity, what I did was to understand the global industrial market as I have not only Colombian nationality, I have also Portuguese nationality. My intention is also to have the global market overview in order to find a job or to have some support for European industrial gas market.

Questions

00:02:12] Where would you say Linde and Air Liquide compete head-to-head? How would you describe the differences and similarities between the two companies?

JV [00:02:36]: I think they compete head-to-head mainly in two strategies or activities. The first one is the strategic ambition that both companies have going for the first position, not only at global level but also at local level. The second one is really the amazing investment capacity that those companies have, not only for their own operations but also for investment inside customers in order to take market or to improve the current customers' performance activity in the industry.

GB [00:03:24]: Where do you see most of the differences between the two companies?

JV [00:03:29]: There are different differences, but mainly are more focused to the contracts that they place in the market. Linde is a company that are really having aggressive, but I will say that in sometimes dangerous strategies in contracts because in order to keep or to guarantee a long-term agreement, what they are doing is including in some contracts the mid-competition clauses that are really good in terms of guarantee business but not in terms of customer experience or in some local legislations, the antitrust institutions are really following and measuring those activities in the market. The difference is that mainly Air Liquide brings the technology, the win-win contract and they really believe that the negotiations must be win-win, not only for Air Liquide win.

GB [00:04:57]: Would you say the attitude is different between the two companies?

JV [00:05:00]: This is the main one.

GB [00:05:03]: What might be the differences between the companies' product portfolios?

JV [00:05:10]: I will say that Linde probably in the packaged gases business is more aggressive offering not only a complete product portfolio for instance, cutting and welding applications, but they are really including something that Air Liquide globally is probably not including in this level of investment, that is the hard goods business. Linde is offering the complete package portfolio, including not only regulators but also including all the wires required for the processes, also cutting machines, also welding machines. There is a complete offering in the hard goods business. For the bulk activities and large industry investments, I will say that has a similar level of approach. The difference probably is that Air Liquide goes to offer more technology working together with the customers in a business-to-business activity.

00:06:26] It seems that Linde is the more profitable of the two companies. What do you think explains this?

JV [00:06:40]: I will take time explaining that because I think that this stems from the result of the merger process between Linde and Praxair. Before becoming Linde, Praxair was also more profitable. I can say that the two companies were created at almost at the same time. It is important to go to the history of those companies to understand. The first highlight is that Air Liquide and Praxair were created Air Liquide in 1902 and Praxair in 1907. Why I'm going to this point? Praxair faced a merger process that was really interesting during the old, let's say, century. The geographical coverage of Praxair, including South America, North America, led them to have higher market share with a strong aggressive strategy based on our long-term contracts, based on price escalations for some strategic industry sectors. For instance, I will say that before the merger process of Linde and Praxair, Praxair company was taking some industrial customers that were really key for the long-term profitable market. For instance, it was before the 2015 year, they took all the steel companies' contracts, not only in South America. They were acting at global level, having this strategy.

What they did also was including the mid-compete clauses, but also, they were offering to the customer a price escalation formula that at that time was really interesting for customers during the first five years of the negotiation. After those five years, it was more difficult for customers to cancel the contracts when the price increases started. After that, what Praxair did was also to acquire local distributors at a global level. Why it is important to remark that in order to understand why they are more profitable, because those companies were really investing in equipment that nowadays and after 2015, we can say that they were really paid. They were depreciated and they led Praxair to offer less, less prices in the market. When you have depreciated equipment, not only related to cylinders, to storage tanks but also to air separation units, trucks for cylinder business and for bulk business, the capacity of investment that the company is really in an advantaged position than the other competitors, in that case, talking about, for instance, Air Liquide, or Air Products or the other actors of the market.

00:10:44] What do you think are the 2-3 most important things that Air Liquide could do to improve its profitability?

JV [00:10:59]: I think that Air Liquide has been doing a good job introducing technology and services as Nexelia, that this service covering not only from the supply of the molecule, but also managing the customer operations. They are doing a good job in that, but they really need to take advantage of that, introduce technologies and the know-how that they can offer at international, local level, negotiating contracts, I will say, with more added value and win-win for both companies.

For instance, when there is technology invested in a customer, you can review how the customer will take value in the cost reduction of the operations, cost efficiency. There is an opportunity to introduce a monthly or an annual fee related just to cost efficiency and to savings. This is something that I see that is not really coming in the market. The industrial gas companies are not really applying and also Air Liquide is not applying that, at least in the majority of the countries.

I have a second strategy. The second one is that we know that at global level and at regional level in South America or in any region, there are some periods in which there is a short supply in the market of certain molecules, such as helium, hydrogen, CO2. I think there is an opportunity to launch a pre-sale of those molecules, for instance, a pre-sale of a company of X percentage, something to be agreed mutually. With this annual consumption, the company could offer, for instance, the storage inside Air Liquide facilities while the product is delivered. The reason why it is important to have the installations, or the area is because if you will invoice a molecule in the majority of the countries, of course, you need to prove to the authorities that the invoice is related to a product that you have delivered. You deliver the product, the customer sign that Air Liquide is the company that will take care of the storage of the inventory of this product while it is delivered. There are different ways to have more income in those sales activities, having more a service or thinking more in services more than in being a molecule supplier.

00:14:41] Which industries, customer types or geographies do you see Air Liquide performing the best in compared to its competitors?

JV [00:14:52]: They are really doing a good job at global level. First, let's talk about the business lines that they are serving. They are serving large industry. That is when you connect a customer with a pipeline, with an air separation unit inside, or a CO2 recovery facility inside the customer. They are doing a good job also in industrial merchant where they supply not only through bulk supply mode but also packaged gases and electronics mobility. They are doing a good job also in home health care and I will say that it's in all the regions. Probably, the opportunity that they really have is only, let's say, that in Colombia, and why I say in Colombia is that is because when Air Liquide entered into the Colombian market, there were established high-level international companies. I will say, at that time was Linde Group, that right now, of course, is Linde plc Praxair.

The second one is Messer, that was really known in the market as Linde. The third one was Air Products. All of them were working in the country for more than 100 years, offering a complete product offer for packaged gases, for bulk. In the case of Air Liquide, the entrance was focused on two main business activities. The first one, home health care, they are doing a good job on that. The second one was an industrial merchant, large industry, but only supplying CO2, carbon dioxide, without a local production of the air separation unit. Molecules are nitrogen, the core molecules of the industrial gas business are mainly argon, oxygen and nitrogen, of course. During the last 10 years, they have not entered in that market in Colombia. All the information that I'm giving is public information. I'm comfortable talking about that.

00:17:23] What do you think Air Liquide needs to focus on to sustain its position or grow it?

JV [00:17:37]: I think that really Air Liquide at a global level and regional level, they are acting really in a consistent way and they have demonstrated a high level of professionalism throughout all the stages of the negotiations, implementation of the projects, the different campaigns. They are really showing to the market that they are a company with values and that they believe in them and they apply and they transmit them not only to the employees but also to all the networking or stakeholders involved in the business. I will say that this is the way in which Air Liquide can continue being the leader in this way to act in the market.

00:18:46] Do you see Air Liquide being behind competitors such as AP or Linde in any areas?

JV [00:18:53]: I really will say Air Liquide is in all aspects ahead Air Products, but that is behind Linde in major projects, but mainly in the approval process. Linde is faster taking decision and approving major projects investment. They are really doing a better job than Air Liquide in the period or the time that they take.

GB [00:19:27]: Is it because Linde has more funding, or are the processes more efficient?

JV [00:19:35]: I will say that Air Liquide wants to do the things in the right way, just meeting the consistency that I have already explained, not only in terms of safety, pricing, of course, that they are monitoring the profitability and they guarantee that. I think they are taking more time, mainly trying to guarantee or to avoid risk. This is the conclusion.

GB [00:20:11]: What do you think Air Liquide could do to catch up to Linde in the area that you just discussed?

JV [00:20:20]: I think that there are, at global level, an organisation that could support and that could, let's say, give some guidelines and to delegate some quantities for investments with guidelines of the business where Air Liquide wants to be. They need to delegate to the local country directors, or to delegate the final decisions of the investments to their regional CEOs or vice presidents. This is the way in which they can do a faster process, taking the opportunities of the market.

00:21:07] Which regions do you think might make the most sense for Air Liquide to focus on?

JV [00:21:15]: I really think in the European, they are doing a best process of approvals probably because the headquarters are in Europe, so probably, this is the reason. I will say that mainly the region Americas, because Air Liquide really do not have a South America region. They really mainly have is a region, Americas, that is divided in North America and they call South America, but Central Americas as well. It's region Americas. In South America, mainly, they are having opportunities taking decisions.

00:22:02] I think Air Products is coming off a multiyear CAPEX cycle. How do you see the products or projects impacting the landscape?

JV [00:22:20]: I really see that Air Products really has a problem when they launch some investments and they communicate those investments to the market, not only the situation that recently happened in US with the Louisiana Clean Energy Complex, where they, of course, communicated the investment of a mega project of blue hydrogen and they really lose money with that because they lost USD 2,900m, but mainly, this amount was the penalty, I will say that, a penalty for the contract termination.

It has also happened in South America, where they have not been successful with some investments. They communicate that they will invest, for instance, in Colombia in an ASU, but they had some problems because they launched to the market, or they face the new opportunities of the market with a second-hand air separation unit without having the complete guarantee of the technical operation and the performance of this facility. What I see is that they are not really being successful in the communication and also entering into the new market opportunities, improving their local capacity.

GB [00:24:00]: How do you think it is affecting the wider market or the landscape?

JV [00:24:08]: In terms of the landscape, really, it is not affecting mainly. I think all the companies and mainly in South America, there is a huge growth opportunity to take more business opportunities related to applications development with gas molecules, with the core molecules. What the companies have been is really thinking, "We can invest always as well," because let's say that the loading of the facilities in general in South America, I will say that the average is 75% of the loading utilisation of the facilities. There are improvement opportunities, of course, but there are opportunities to invest in new air separation units in general in all South America countries.

00:25:10] What areas of merchant gas do you see additional capacity coming in?

JV [00:25:31]: I will say that mainly in the industry sectors where the development of applications could be more developed, introducing new technologies. For instance, the introduction of new technologies has stalled, for example, due to the lack of CO2, hydrogen and helium, those molecules in which there is lack of those molecules in the market, that there is a higher demand than the offer. This is why I think that they have opportunities, mainly, for instance, the CO2 that has the majority of the applications go to carbonated drinks applications, but there are opportunities, for instance, for pH control to replace the existing or current assets that the industries in South America are using. If you do not have the CO2, how to go to develop applications to replace the assets? There are, of course, opportunities with hydrogen, not only green hydrogen, but as well developing other combustion processes using the hydrogen advantage that has in the technology. Of course, there is lack of helium in the region South America as there is not a source as there is in, for instance, in Europe, in Asia or in USA.

00:27:19] You mentioned that one application of CO2 would be in fizzy drinks. What other specific applications do you see adding additional capacity?

JV [00:27:38]: For instance, there are some freezing processes and transportation processes of the food industry. The geography in South America in general, in Brazil, Colombia, Chile, is really a challenge. Those countries do not have the facilities or the air separation units localised, as in a power zone. For instance, in the case of Colombia, you deliver product to all the cities of the country, having a facility in one region and going for more than 1,000km to deliver the molecule. For instance, in transport of food, what we see is that there is an opportunity with nitrogen, supporting and introducing the transport with molecules that could keep low temperatures, could be CO2, could be nitrogen, but all depends on the availability of the molecules. There are still opportunities as well in the food industry in which there are plans of expansions for the carbonated drinks market, not only due to the natural gas situation of the different countries, but mainly in Colombia as well, but also, due to the availability of CO2, they are really thinking how to increase their current business performance if they will not have the molecule. There are opportunities if we guarantee to customers the reliability of the supply of the molecule.

There are other examples of applications in cutting and welding, of course. Something that I see that have not been developed in some small countries in South America, let's say, could be Chile, could be countries as Ecuador, Venezuela, as well, Colombia, Peru, is that there are customers that could use an on-site generation inside the customer. The international companies really feel not so comfortable delivering the technology if they can probably think in an investment or a new ASU. They really are not introducing those technologies. In general, the three companies or four companies of the South American market, including Messer, are not offering those technologies to the customers. There are opportunities as well.

GB [00:30:43]: Most of this was based on the South American market. Would those applications or additional capacity across those applications be similar in the US or European markets?

JV [00:30:59]: I will say that all the food industry, the steel companies, the improvement in oxy combustion, for instance, the pH control with CO2, those apply, and there are opportunities as well in all the regions.

00:31:21] Which key areas do you think Air Liquide has been focused on investing in?

JV [00:31:31]: At global level, mainly in semiconductors for chips production in US, Japan, of course, that the investment have been more focused on the new technologies or green technologies as biogas, biomethane, all the clean technologies, and also, not only for European regions but also for Brazil, mainly in the South America region.

GB [00:32:01]: Do you think this will continue to be Air Liquide's focus going forwards? Do you agree with the area that the company has chosen to invest in?

JV [00:32:13]: Yes. I think the investment will be focused on that but also improving the local capacity for the air separation unit molecules, or core molecules in those countries where there is really a loading of 95%.

00:32:34] Where do you think Air Liquide needs the most investment in core assets?

JV [00:32:46]: In general terms, I will say that mainly in the cylinders, because packaged gases are not really in a situation in which you can stop the investment of the cylinders if you are thinking of having an air separation unit new to deliver bulk. Let's say that in a global level and also it's a similar percentage in South America, the market in industrial merchant is 70% for bulk operations where you need tanks, trailers, but also, the 30% of the ASU will go to the packaged gases business. It is important to deliver to the industry the assets required to improve the performance, but it demands something that is really important, that is the control of the cylinders. In South America, this is something that is a key issue in some regions, but this is why it is important to understand, to which market do I want to go to serve with packaged gases? Will I go to medium and small companies? Of course, but those that are really looking to increase the productivity, but I will not go… I can serve, for instance, distributors, but not those distributors that are serving retail and resellers that are not committed to control the cylinders. This is why it is important to have a strategy, to which market segment will I go? Which channel will I go or will I use? This is how we can really define the assets for this strategy.

GB [00:35:08]: Why are cylinders a particular issue in the South American market for Air Liquide?

JV [00:35:17]: Not really. Air Liquide really has a good control cylinder system. When you have this control cylinder system and Air Liquide, that has really the concern on safety, Air Liquide is not really facing that situation where some cylinders are installed by the market locally small players. In general terms, the most important is to analyse if I will fill a cylinder, from which company is coming that cylinder and following the safety procedures before filling the cylinders. Air Liquide mainly has these guidelines really clear and in process in place.

GB [00:36:19]: Where do you think Air Liquide needs to focus its core assets investment if not in cylinders?

JV [00:36:37]: I think that the intention really is going for new air separation units, but it's important to clarify something that I have not said, that is even though there is still a good place to offer oxygen and nitrogen, in general terms, in South America and also at global level, there is lack of argon as well. Argon is a molecule that has higher demand than the offer that is supplied locally.

GB [00:37:13]: How much should Air Liquide invest in new ASUs [air separation units]?

JV [00:37:25]: Investing in an air separation unit, I will say just investing in a 200 TPDs air separation unit as a single project, because to have the projection globally is really not easy, and also at a regional level, investing in one ASU of 200 TPDs, you will need to invest at least EUR 65m. Why? Because as I have already mentioned, you will need to consider that mainly 70% will go to bulk operations. You need to invest in the trailers and in the storage tanks. For cylinders, you will need not only to invest on the cylinders but also having the filling centre to take the molecule and to deliver to the market in the supply mode of packaged gases. The average investment for a single project with this strategy is EUR 65m in average.

GB [00:38:37]: How much capacity does this give in terms of production per year?

JV [00:38:44]: 200 TPDs. 200 TPDs, that is tonnes per day. The standard is that the 200 TPDs or tonne per day, let's say, capability will go in an average, 70% as oxygen, liquid oxygen, 20% liquid nitrogen and 10% argon liquid. This is the average, but you can set the production according to the requirements and also considering the technical conditions of the ASU. There is also projects in which there are opportunities and in which there are, of course, a place to invest that is for CO2 recovery. As I have already mentioned, CO2 is a molecule that is in shortage in South America and also globally, but mainly as well in Colombia. If you invest in a facility for CO2 recovery, all depends on the scope of the facility. If it is a multi-gen facility in which you will not only… It's similar to the cogeneration, but the difference is that you supply other utilities. The core intention is to recover the CO2. The investment of a multi-gen facility is around EUR 45m. If you are only recovering CO2 from processing your customer, you can invest EUR 10m.

00:40:36] What do you think are the best growth opportunities for Air Liquide in the core industrial gas business?

JV [00:40:48]: I think, of course, semiconductors for some geographies is a core business. Let's say that, for instance, in Brazil and in Europe and in US, there are still opportunities investing in electronics. The molecules of electronics are really requiring higher investment levels. It could be around EUR 200m. In general, in the majority of the countries, the investments will go and there are opportunities installing new ASUs and new CO2 recovery facilities.

00:41:30] What do you consider to be the best assets when you look at Air Liquide's manufacturing footprint across South America?

JV [00:41:50]: I think that mainly the packaged gases… The main assets, I will say the one that I mentioned, that was the multi-gen facility. This is one of the main assets because this is a model and a technology that is really unique at global level. This facility is installed in Colombia and is really unique at global level. Why this technology is really different, it's because it is installed to recover the CO2 of the process from a turbine. In this process as well, in the complete process is produced the utilities that the company that is the main customer, this is public information, that is FEMSA Coca-Cola, the utilities that they are requiring that are freezing water, vapour and nitrogen as well in the process. This is why the name is called multi-gen. I think this is the main asset or technology.

GB [00:43:25]: Why is it better than other assets across the South American footprint?

JV [00:43:31]: Because this is really unique. The majority of their assets, they are air separation units that are really standard models at globally level. The trucks, the cylinders and all are really standard models.

GB [00:43:52]: Do you think this could be replicated at other manufacturing sites?

JV [00:43:59]: Sure, sure. The most important is to define which company is really having the profile in terms of safety operations, in terms of the concern on quality and safety. There are opportunities, not only on the beverage industry, that is the case of Colombia, but also, for instance, in the petrochemical industry, or in chemistry industry, in blanketing industry. All depends, of course, on the volumes required by the customer, but also depending on the molecules that will you not only serve to that customer, but to the rest of the industry in the country. There are still opportunities, of course.

GB [00:44:57]: Do you think this asset has received the most capital investment in the region? Why?

JV [00:45:09]: Yes. The technology that it has really is unique. The advantage as well that this technology has is that you don't need to buy the energy from the distributor of energy of the government. You are really producing your own energy to operate the facility. It brings independency. I see that it's really a great advantage for the market.

00:45:53] What do you think are Air Liquide's biggest logistical challenges in delivering merchant gas in South America?

JV [00:46:09]: In South America, as I have mentioned before, there is a geography that is really complex. There are challenges distributing gases for, as I said, more than 1,000km. What is good is that, of course, that the industry pay for that, because they understand that this is a geography situation and that there is a cost behind the operation, there are challenges not only in Colombia as well, similar challenges in the geography and transport in Brazil, in Chile. What is good is that customers and the industry really understand and pay for that. You can charge an additional fee that covers this transport cost. We could say that in some geographies, the molecule could be less expensive than the transport fee.

GB [00:47:16]: Obviously, it's logistically more difficult.

00:47:16] What exactly are customers paying for when they're paying more for the transport cost? Is it the mode of transport or time taken?

JV [00:47:31]: Yes, it's the time taken. For instance, when I mentioned… Thanks for this question because when I mentioned 1,000km, it will not be the same in the hours required going in Europe or US than in Colombia or Brazil or in Chile. To go 1,000km, it could take 24 hours. In other regions, it could take 6-8 hours, all depends on the geography.

GB [00:48:03]: Can Air Liquide do anything to make this easier or more streamlined for them?

JV [00:48:13]: I think it is important to centralise some operations on the main regions. For instance, in the case of Colombia, we have divided the country, or, in general terms, the market has divided the country in four regions. That is the region north, the central region, southwest and the Antioquia region. The strategy could be, of course, to have a power zone of the different molecules based on the strategy. I will not fill, for instance, cutting and welding, if I don't want to go to the region Antioquia with cutting and welding, because Air Products is there and Air Products is the leader in cutting and welding. Let's say, in packaged gases, due to the size of the market opportunities, I will not have a power zone producing there the cutting and welding mixtures to supply the market. If in the north of the region, there is an opportunity, I will centralise the filling centre for this application, let's say, thinking on a power zone, thinking on really the strategy to face the market.

00:49:40] How do the key end markets that Air Liquide serves in South America differ from those in the US or Europe?

JV [00:49:57]: The difference really is because South America does not have the electronics applications or markets. We are not still producing in South America the chips that are produced in Europe or in US or in other regions. In general terms, the industry is similar. The industry that is being served is similar, petrochemical, steel, food and beverage, and there is a great industry in all the different countries of South America.

00:50:45] How does the competitive landscape in South America differ from that of the US or Europe, given what you just mentioned?

JV [00:50:56]: Let's talk first that at global level, it's similar to the South America market. I will explain why and I will explain which is the main difference. At global level, for instance, Linde has around 39% of market share and Air Liquide has around 28% market share. There is a leading position as well in South America of Linde and Air Liquide as a first place and second place. Linde has around 41% of the market share and Air Liquide, 30%. The difference is that there is a new name of actors in South America, that is Messer. Messer, due to the merger process of Linde and Praxair, Linde sold the company to Messer, the old Linde Group that were in Colombia and Chile. In order to continue with the global approval process of the authorities, they needed to sell Linde, the old Linde Group, to Messer. Colombia and Chile has a new actor in terms of the name, because in terms of the infrastructure, they really are the same company that was the previous Linde Group company or AGA in the past. The difference is that this actor that is Messer has 13%, and Air Products, that at global level could have the third place. In South America, really, they are competing with Messer for the third place, but I will say that Air Products is really the fourth company in the region in South America, having 12% in average of the market and the 4% is for others.

GB [00:53:07]: Which of these companies are adding and closing capacity in the region?

JV [00:53:16]: I will say that those that are really investing or adding capacity are mainly Air Liquide and Messer, Air Liquide in bulk activities and Messer in packaged gases activities, and also focused on the home care activities. They are strong in home care activities. There is lack of CO2. All companies, Messer and Air Liquide, that are really open to invest in the different geographies of South America, they are really thinking on investing in CO2, but they are really waiting to have a better panorama of the natural gas supply offer.

00:54:03] What do you think are the overall implications for pricing and margins in South America?

JV [00:54:12]: I really think it will not have any impact if Air Liquide invests on bulk, or Messer invest on packaged gases, because there are still opportunities of growth. When I mentioned that in South America, in general terms, the loading of the facilities are in an average of 95% or 90%, all depends on the country. It's because they really have opportunities to install new capacities. The way to understand is that some investors or companies could say, "If there is a loading of 90%, where are getting the industry the product from?"

The problem is that as the majority of the customers that are really having the impact are the packaged gases business, they do not import product to have the products. They really reduce the operations, they really reduce the volumes and they are working on, let's say, in an uncertain way. The majority that are really facing that situation are the local distributors, because the majority of the international companies, what they really do when there is a lack of product or shortage is to reduce to the distributors and to guarantee that medium and long and large companies are really meeting contracts volumes. This is the way. This is the way we manage that. In conclusion, there are more opportunities and there is not an impact on that.

00:56:15] What do you think Air Liquide's volume growth profile looks like in South America compared to the other areas that it operates in, based on what you just mentioned?

JV [00:56:31]: I think the volume growth has been and will be around 4-5% for the core molecules, could be 10% for CO2 and 20% for hydrogen and others. This is what I really see could be the trend.

00:57:00] How secure do you think Air Liquide's position with key clients is?

JV [00:57:13]: I really think always there will be a risk. In general terms, Air Liquide really has a good position with their customers in terms of customer experience. I will say that it is not only at regional level, it's also at global level. Air Liquide is perceived as a company that is not just a molecule provider. Air Liquide works as a B2B business with different business models. I really do not see that there is any risk on maybe losing customers, or the churn, that is the KPI that measures that activity.

GB [00:58:09]: What do you think could cause churn?

JV [00:58:20]: Maybe during the negotiation process, when there is an impact of natural gas, let's say, in the case of, for instance, CO2, probably there could be a potential risk. This is something that as well is really understood by the industry and in general by the different countries. I do not see on that an issue.

GB [00:58:56]: Do you think the company's churn could increase in future?

JV [00:59:06]: No, not really. No, not really. Not really.

00:59:12] What do you think are the biggest risks to Air Liquide's success and growth strategy going forwards?

JV [00:59:44]: Really, Air Liquide is consistent. When I mentioned that Air Liquide takes too much time to decide in an investment, it's because they really review the minimum, minimum, minimum risk. I really do not see any risk on that, not only for South America as well for a global level now.

01:00:07] Would you like to add anything else about Air Liquide?

JV [01:00:20]: I really think that there is something in which I would like to mention, and it's that, in general terms, there are opportunities in the industrial gas business, but there are also opportunities in the speciality gas business. That is a product offer that is still not developed in the different South America markets. The issue as well that Air Liquide or the different companies have is that they really do not have a dedicated team or human resources to go to work with the customers and to get the opportunities that are really in the market, and that this product offer really will be sustainable because the majority of the speciality gases in terms of mixtures and pure gases are growing, and depending on local legislations on quality standards, this is something that will, I will say, last almost forever. This is the point that I wanted to remark.

GB [01:01:35]: Thank you so much for your time today. I really enjoyed the call and hopefully, we'll speak again soon.

JV [01:01:49]: Thanks to you. It was a pleasure being with you and talking about this passionate world of the gas.

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