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2026.10.05 | TB | Power | Global Transformers Market: Hitachi Energy

原标题：Global Transformers Market – Senior Financial Executive at Hitachi Energy Ltd

#power #industrials

Third Bridge · 2026-10-05

Client-led • 26 Sep 2026

Companies: APARINDS IN, GE US, SIE DE, 504036 IN

Expert Senior Financial Executive at Hitachi Energy Ltd

Agenda

Questions

00:18:27] Could you discuss the size of the transformer industry across the globe, including the US, Middle East and India?

Expert [00:18:45]: It's growing. It's huge. I think from 2020 onwards until now, the transformers have grown more than 200-300% the market demand. Now, with the data centres coming in and it's pumping even higher. We do see a big growth in the transformers requirement because that's the first bottleneck in any of the data centre industry to how to get the power to the racks. We see a massive boom in that industry. I would not be surprised because previously, we were thinking the annual market demand for transformers was around USD 30bn-40bn. Now we have already crossed USD 65bn. I would not be surprised that by 2030, we will be more than USD 100bn only for transformers part of the business as a market demand.

Client 1 [00:19:37]: What is the total market size in terms of GVA [gigavolt-ampere] or MVA [megavolt-ampere]?

Expert [00:19:43]: That is a difficult one because everybody can calculate the GVA in a very different way because GVA is not structured numbers like revenues or this thing. This is something which people can always based on their installed capacity. If you ask me, I think for overall transformers, maybe more than 4,000 GVA is required to deliver the requirement of the global needs. I'm talking about the whole portfolio. It starts from distribution, dry transformers, power, small power and medium power. It's very difficult to give you exactly this thing because everybody has anything between 4,000 and 5,000 GVA in the next 10 years.

00:20:40] How is the North American market growing? How is that market being catered to via imports to their own manufacturers? You gave a global perspective that 4,000 GVA [gigavolt-ampere] will be required over the next 10 years.

Expert [00:22:45]: North America, as of now is the biggest market because the data centre boom has come first to North America. Obviously, it was dependent more on utilities and renewables. Renewables have come down. It's around maybe, I would say, 50% of the demand is now driven by North America only. You can say around 1,500-2,000 GVA requirement there.

00:23:06] Could you discuss the market for CTC [continuously transposed conductor] and PICC [paper insulated copper conductor], the key raw materials for transformers? How do you see that demand being supplied for transformer companies?

Expert [00:23:32]: If the demand of the transformer goes up, obviously, the demand for the commodities that are going inside the transformer also goes up, when the demand for the end product goes up, the whole value chain also benefits from there. We do see a pretty strong demand both on the CTC part, also the PICC part coming up very strongly.

Client 1 [00:24:05]: What is the total global demand for CTC and PICC? What is the total opportunity for CTC and PICC in the North American market?

Expert [00:24:23]: I cannot convert the exact GVA into CTC and PICC because that conversion rate, I don't have it. You can see that around 5-10% of the total transformer cost is driven by the CTC and PICCs. If the whole transformer volume is increasing 3x, then you can understand the current market of CTC and PICC will also increase by 3x. I don't have exact tonnes to tell you, I don't have that conversion, but there is a significant growth coming in CTC and PICC part.

Client 1 [00:25:06]: You mentioned that the demand for CTC and PICC will increase if transformer demand grows. Could you give a number for the total global demand of CTC and PICC in tonnes?

Expert [00:25:28]: I don't want to give you out of the head something, because transformers are not made in GVAs, they are made in MVAs. If I have 10MVA transformer, which might across maybe windings or all those things if they require at least maybe 15-20kg of wires, I'll use my calculator now. Then take average 25kgs into, maybe an incremental growth of roughly around 3,000-4,000 tonnes, but that's a very broad number.

Client 1 [00:26:12]: How many tonnes of CTC or PICC will be required for a 160MVA transformer?

Expert [00:26:52]: I'm not an engineer. You must have seen my profile. I'm a finance guy. I cannot give you exact tonnage for that one.

00:27:11] Could you discuss CTC and PICC's demand and supply?

Expert [00:27:22]: That is fine. That we can have it, but if you ask me exact tonnage growth and all those things, that is very difficult for me to give you. I can only give you a very broad numbers that if the overall CTC is around maybe 20,000 tonnes, it might go to around 30,000-35,000 tonnes because of the growth in the transformers. You have to understand the conductors are not only driven by us. Conductors are also driven by motors, conductors are driven by the electric cars and all those things. There are other products also which are booming, and that will drive the growth of conductors. Copper is the basic thing for many of the products. It's not only us. The motors business is going on, medium switchgears are going up. Everybody needs copper. Copper is the most constrained material in the world.

00:28:23] The market is big. We are looking at India-based companies and demand. In India, there's 70,000-80,000 tonnage of demand. For most players, new capacities are coming in, which can reach 140,000-150,000 tonnes of supply in India. These India-based players are looking for export markets, such as North America and the Middle East, where they have some visibility. How do you look at the Indian market? Are India-based players supplying CTC and PICC to North America? Will that work? If so, which companies have the most demand?

Expert [00:29:23]: That I can help you, but don't ask me the tonnes because 60MVA can be 18 tonnes also. It can be 25 tonnes also. It depends on the power rating. Don't ask me even that one, those I know because even you can do 100MVA for 30 tonnes also. Now coming back to the copper part, what you talked about, the conductors part. It depends also. When you talk about 60MVA, you're talking about a power transformer. You're not talking about a distribution transformer, right?

Client 1 [00:30:05]: Correct, yes.

Expert [00:30:07]: Power transformers are the critical infrastructure things for any grid. There, as of now, still, the European suppliers like Asta and Zhili, they are the main ones, and they're investing also. There are a few Indian ones, which we use like Apar and I think Hind Rectifiers. They have been also given a lot of exposure outside the country, but that is not in North America as of yet. Most of the North American part is coming from the European copper supply because they have a long, what to say, quality or their approved vendors for that. Having said that, as you can understand, there is a lot of constraint in the market and people, if they want to have a transformer, they need to be more flexible with the sourcing. We do see an opportunity, but as of now, at least most of the multinational companies have not introduced Indian suppliers in the North American markets.

Having said that, there are some companies which are using Sam Dong, which is from China, but very less from India as of now, but indirect exports can happen. If somebody is building a transformer in Europe and then exporting it to US and that can use sometimes Indian CTC, but directly, because sending the CTC to Americas, at least we have not seen that yet by strict utilisation of the US-based manufacturers. It is coming. It will come eventually because as you know, it's a very constrained material.

00:31:51] A company will require a certain amount of CTC for a year. Right now, you're getting enough supply from Europe, or if there's a constraint, you are looking at the Indian market, but it's not cracked properly. You mentioned Apar and Hind. Are you seeing any other players who have the potential to enter the US market?

Expert [00:32:19]: I would say, as of now, I do see chances of Apar and Hind only to have those access because they are well established. There are small other players also, but I'm not sure if they will get that preference as of now. As you know, if they can improve on the value chain and if they can improve on their quality, then maybe, yes, why not? You have to understand, most of the conductors are trying to be sourced at a regional level. When we have an Asia-Pacific, Middle East and Africa region, most of them, there is a possibility either will be sub-sourced from Apar or it will be sourced at Sam Dong. When it goes to European manufacturing, most of them is already supported by the European manufacturers. US ones are also coming from European manufacturers because the pricing is not an issue there. The thing is that if the European manufacturers don't ramp up the capacity to meet the needs of the growing demand of transformers, then obviously, somewhere else, it has to be sourced. That's where the Chinese players like Sam Dong and Indian players like Apar or Hind Rectifiers come into place.

Eventually, as you can understand, copper conductors are dependent on the copper mines. The copper mines also have to scale it up to deliver those things. Now where are those copper mines, mostly in Australia and China. Why they would not put their things in the Chinese factories, the Australian ones and the European factories instead of selling. The constraint is not the conductor. The constraint is the raw material. India copper production is not that high as compared to the rest of the world. Even Africa does more than India.

00:34:10] Could the US transformer manufacturers procure conductors from China? Recently, there were regulations against it, but are they allowed to procure from China?

Expert [00:34:28]: They are. Not the utilities, I would say, the industry, not the utilities. The data centre doesn't mind. In that industry segment doesn't mind where the conductor is coming from, but the utilities might have an issue with that because they have to follow the government rules. I would not say it's not happening, but still 5-10% is coming from India. It's always there, but is it 50%? No. It's still Europe.

Client 1 [00:35:18]: You mentioned that Europe needs to add more capacity. We're witnessing a lot of capacity expansion in transformers. Would the Europe-based players, such as Asta, need to grow significantly for the utility market?

Expert [00:35:49]: The thing is that who makes a long-term agreement with Asta. The people who are having a long-term agreement with Asta will get the preference on the conductors. European has a lot of manufacturers on them, but most of them are transactional buyers. Basically, I do see because we also have our challenges. India also has our challenges with the US on the tariff part of it.

I don't know with the new law passed of 100% tariff because of buying of the Russian oils, how much of that will be impacting India and what all will be excluded because China has a problem, but India also has a problem. I do believe that eventually, if there is a demand and the supply is constrained, Indian manufacturers will get that benefit. What we thought maybe 15 years back is changing. It's changing. We never thought that India will penetrate the Middle East market, but they are doing it. Eventually, demand and supply always balances themselves.

00:37:56] How would you rate India-based suppliers and the quality of their material? How would you compare an India-based supplier vs a China-based or a South Korea-based manufacturer in terms of pricing?

Expert [00:38:14]: From the pricing point of view, definitely, they are competitive. That's not too bad. Based on my experience, the quality, Chinese ones are still better. The people think that Chinese materials are not good. There are very rare cases of conductor issues there, but whenever we are sourcing from India, we do still see some issues there. Now you can always blame whether it is exactly because of the conductor issues in the winding or something like that. That's the root cause we can always do. I would still rate as of the Chinese manufacturers a bit, a notch above the Indian manufacturers, but they are catching up very fast, let's be honest. They are doing it. The sense of producing quality goods in China has improved significantly last 15 years, whereas in India, it's evolving. We don't even provide quality food to our people. Can you imagine? I don't know if you guys are reading the news.

Every other day, I read a news about that even the quality of food that has been supplied in five-star restaurants are challenged. The sense of quality is not embedded into the psyche of Indian organisation. Yes, if you are a multinational company, you do it, but if you are local, as long as it's not creating a huge challenge and it's not breaking down, the sense of quality is not so embedded in the psyche of the Indian manufacturers. It is improving, but it's not a pride they take in that one.

Client 1 [00:40:08]: Which India-based supplier would you rate high on the quality curve? Whose product quality would be closer to its competitors?

Expert [00:40:14]: I would not put close. Apar is not close to Asta. That's for sure, I think from that point of view, but Apar is good. It's good. It's improving, and it's one of the best. There are tons of this type of conductor company. If you ask me, Asta has its own India arm also. Generally, for us, it's an Indian company to be very open with you, we use it because we trust the global brand on that one. Then Apar, Hind Rectifiers and the rest, I don't even know if there are any other things. There are a lot of other things. I don't know because we don't deal with them, so we don't know.

Client 1 [00:41:07]: Would there be a big difference between Asta India and Apar in terms of pricing?

Expert [00:41:17]: It's around 10-15% premium. By now, I think it must have evolved. I think the gap must have been closer now, maybe it's 5-10% only now.

Client 1 [00:42:02]: What is India's share in the US market's demand or sourcing for CTC and conductors?

Expert [00:42:16]: 10-15%, even less than 10% also. I'm not reasonably sure because I have never sourced an Indian conductor for US and I'm sure GE also doesn't do it. I'm sure Virginia will not do it for, I think, 10%. They have a huge potential to capture the market because 90% market, they have a huge growth possibility if they can really convince the customer to go for them.

00:42:55] You mentioned Virginia. If a CTC supplier is supplying conductors and cables to Virginia, how would you rate that CTC supplier?

Expert [00:43:12]: Virginia is an Indian-owned, but I would say their quality has been in a big challenge. I don't know if you guys are following up this thing, Virginia was on sale just maybe 7-10 months before. They were on sale. They wanted to sell up of transformers because they were not making money there. Not seven months, sorry, I would say, maybe 12-18 months when the data centre boom came out, then they tried to price themselves up very high and nobody was interested in buying. Then they started investing also. I read that they are expanding their factories. This is a business which has been thriving with bare minimum margins and some sketchy quality things. Having said that, now it's still delivering. If any Indian company has penetrated any MNC ones in US, then I would say their quality levels are pretty high.

Client 1 [00:44:52]: What's your view on Delta Star?

Expert [00:44:55]: It's a small company.

00:44:58] Transformers require CTC and PICC, but do they also require paper-insulated cables?

Expert [00:45:06]: Yes. Just for the connections.

Client 1 [00:45:10]: How would you gauge that market?

Expert [00:45:12]: That's not a constrained market like CTC or PICC. For these types of small cable connections and terminal boxes connections, the growth is there, obviously, but it's not heavily. There are many small manufacturers across China and India manufacturing them. To be very open, even I think Asta also does this thing, I'm not sure because they give the cables, I'm not sure. I don't think so they give the cables. I think cables, in India, I think Apar does cables, if I'm not wrong, I'm not sure. For the other big companies like Polycab and all those things, I think they don't do these terminal box cables. I'm not sure about that one. The growth will be there, just to let you know.

Client 1 [00:46:32]: Is that because you've got more copper conductors?

Expert [00:46:41]: That's because there are many cable companies.

00:48:12] How would you rate India-based suppliers in terms of after-sales quality? You might face issues with quality and have to return to these suppliers. How receptive are they?

Expert [00:48:31]: First of all, it's always a denial. It is not because of them. You have to really, first discussion starts itself that when we come back and say, "Guys, we did a root cause analysis, the windings failed because the mounting of the cables or paper that you then put the insulation on that copper was not okay." First of all, it's always denial, "No, no, no, we did a good job." Then always we say, "Okay, show me our testing systems and all those things." Eventually, when they do inspect, then they start to hard negotiate and all those things. If you put me in a context point of view, I would say I would prefer to deal with a Chinese supplier rather than dealing with an Indian supplier.

Client 2 [00:49:31]: Does that impact your sourcing decisions?

Expert [00:49:34]: Yes, it does. Again, as you can understand, if the material is constrained and if the suppliers are limited, then what do you do? You have to take that risk. Because you can only be much more stricter in your things when there are many multiple suppliers on that one. Here, we are talking about 3-4 suppliers. Out of that, we have to choose the best two. Yes, sometimes we do have to let go of some things, assuming that things will not bad. It's not that every transformer is failing. It's not that. There must be something in their quality that all the transformers are not failing, but whenever that 2-3 cases comes out, then it's an interesting discussion with them.

Client 2 [00:50:30]: Which India-based supplier is better?

Expert [00:50:36]: Apar is better, but I'm talking about general Indian.

00:50:42] Could you discuss high-quality transformers such as 765kV? For such transformers, you'll use windings from Asta. Do you use India-based winding suppliers for lower-rating transformers?

Expert [00:51:08]: Distribution transformers, we mostly use local only. If you are going for power transformers, anything more than 400kV, we use foreign ones, below 400kV, we use local manufacturers also because the risk level is low. 765kV, definitely European. HVDC is definitely European. Does that answer your question? Hind is a very new entrant. In fact, I think it was more known as a different manufacturer, but I think it joined 5-7 years back into our sourcing list. Before that, it was always Apar and Asta only.

Hind Rectifiers at that time was a new entrant, but it has come up strongly now. That's what I was saying. The discussion is recent only, but I was saying that previously, the competition was between only Apar and Asta only. Most of the time, Asta was preferred, but now, because we also want to diversify our supply base. We don't want to depend only on two people. That's where the Hind Rectifiers also came into play.

00:53:35] Will you be looking for new India-based or China-based players? Do these players meet your demand? Do you prefer only one of them?

Expert [00:53:47]: As of now, what we are trying to do is, as I mentioned to you, we are already giving them long-term agreements and asking them to ramp up their capacity because to bring a new Indian player to get the factory qualified, to get them fully set-up, it takes years, and we don't have that much of time. It's better to work with the players who are already existing in this market and also give them a long-term visibility so that they can do their investments and also maybe give them some advance on those long-term investments, help them to build up their own capacity. That makes sense because they're already approved. We don't have to waste time on the approval process.

00:54:41] Could you explain your process for checking the quality of or approving a particular company?

Expert [00:54:55]: First of all, it's not only we approve it, it's also approved by the customer who is accepting that this particular company's products have to go in the products. At the end of the day, all the transformers are connected to the grid, we have to be very careful what goes inside the thing. For any company, we start with the lowest portfolio. Maybe are they successful in the distribution transformer portfolio, which has the lowest risk. If they have substantiated for a couple of years, then they move it to the small power transformers, then they have success. To get to a large transformers, the company needs at least 6-7 years of clear credibility to prove that, yes, their products are working in the smaller range transformers and they have the capacity, then they have to do a type test. There are a lot of processes in between to make them ready for putting into the big transformers because we are talking about 60MVA. These are big ones. It takes time. I would say not always maybe 10 years, but definitely 3-5 years to get them into that, start from the lower ones to the mid-sized ones and then finally getting into the larger ones, that's the thing.

00:56:13] How could a supplier break into the US market, such as 10-50MVA, 100-150MVA and 200MVA? What are the major markets?

Expert [00:56:35]: Actually, as of now, HVDC is not the biggest market there, it's a mid voltage. If you ask me for US, I think 40-100MVA is the main market because these are the data centres, these are the distribution utilities. Then for the grid connections and for the generation part of it, the 250MVA are used. As of now, the major growth is coming from the data centres, and that's all between 40MVA and 100MVA.

00:57:11] How do you decide between using CTC and PICC for a transformer? Is there any rule of thumb in the US?

Expert [00:57:23]: Every transformer has to have a CTC because either there are aluminium windings or they have copper winding. Most of the transformers are copper winding. For copper winding, CTC will be used. It depends on only whether the manufacturer decides which CTC to be used. There's nothing to do with the customer side. As you were saying that each transformer manufacturer decides what are the components they want to use for their transformers. Then it decides where the sourcing has to be. CTCs and PICCs are not mandated by the customer, like bushings and tap changers are mandated by the customer that you have to use this thing or the monitoring systems and all those things. For CTC, I don't think the customer mandates it. The customer only wants to know what is the source of origin is because there are sometimes tariffs on some companies on these type of things, the electrical steel, copper and all those things. Based on that, they just wants to know the sourcing of origin, but the responsibility is still with the manufacturer from where to source it. The manufacturer has to be comfortable in sourcing if we believe that the quality of an Indian-based supplier is good, he can source it. I'm sure, as I said, some of the manufacturers are using it also for the cost competitive part of it because the CTC from India are more competitive than the CTC coming from Europe.

00:59:31] Are we seeing India-based players making any inroads in the US transformer market by selling transformers there directly?

Expert [00:59:53]: Why do you want to sell transformers to US? Indian market itself is growing so big. I don't know if you are reading the news or not, but even announced a massive expansion of a new factory in Baroda in addition to our existing factory because the Indian market is growing. I do see that the Indian market itself has such a big demand that most of the manufacturers are catering to that. Obviously, the price levels are different, I can understand, but first, we have to feed our domestic market before we go for exports.

01:00:31] Many players are expanding in India, and the domestic demand may be lower than the potential supply. Everybody is looking at exports as a market. Is the US market open to India-based players?

Expert [01:00:54]: Market is obviously as of now, that much not open. I think the domestic demand of India is huge. If you see that the National Electric Policy of India, it's huge. I think India is going to be the largest number of HVDC connections going in the next 15 years. The domestic demand is huge. Now the question is that where can India compete in the export markets? Not in US because, first of all, the logistics cost of sending a 100MVA transformer to US is costly. It's costly. You have to do a heavy-lift transport. Can you imagine sending a transformer all the way from Mumbai to Cape of Good Hope? It will become 30% of the cost. Why would somebody buy a power transformer from India until and unless there is no market availability anywhere else at a 30% extra cost because if you send the same transformer from Brazil or Colombia to US, you are 20% cheaper until unless you will go and try to kill the market. Because Indian manufacturers, people think that by export, they can make a lot of money. I think they underestimate the risk there. First of all, it's not only the product. It's a relationship risk also. It's aftersales. What is the aftersales capability of an Indian manufacturer in US? Very limited.

I do see people are pretty excited in doing that export. Just if you are a standalone local company, you do have even bigger challenges. The dream is good, but I think it's too early to make it into a real story. Yes, if you ask me, will that happen? Yes, eventually, maybe 10-20 years down the line, it might happen because the constrained capacity will eventually meet demand require the need. I don't see in the next 5-6 years that there will be a significant influx of Indian things to US for this type of electrical equipment. Yes, for pharmaceuticals and all those things definitely because we are there. For electricals, there are other opportunities which can be done in a much more cheaper way.

01:03:46] In the case of global companies with a presence in India, do you see sourcing from India going up substantially? Will India be a least-preferred option for a global company?

Expert [01:04:06]: There, we do see exports possibilities, not to US, obviously, but definitely to Middle East and Africa. Middle East will be the biggest market for the Indian manufacturers going forward because Middle East was a European market that shifted into a Chinese-driven market, but they are also eventually opening up to the Indian manufacturers. I would see their Indian manufacturers gaining more foothold than going to US and Africa also. I think export, first, you have to be successful in a domestic market, then you have to be successful in your region. Then you go and do cross regions. I think Indians have been very successful in their own domestic market. Now they are expanding into the region. Eventually, they will. That's how it happened in China also. China was very successful in domestic, but India is around 30-40 years behind China. You can understand that it will take some more time for Indian manufacturers to be accepted as a quality supplier for critical products.

01:05:12] With feeder factories, does India fit in as a manufacturing base for the US market?

Expert [01:05:29]: There, you are right. Absolutely right. If you are a feeder factory, which sends the semi-finished goods or the critical components into the assembly unit, there India is really doing pretty well. There are many feeder factories in India, which are supplying goods to European factories or even to the US factories also. Yes, there, I can understand. I'm talking about full product, but feeder components, vacuum bottles, these type of things, yes, you're absolutely right. There, India is gaining a lot of traction.

Client 1 [01:06:10]: Is that one of the key growth drivers from India's viewpoint?

Expert [01:06:23]: The thing is that because when you are going on a feeder factory concept, you are more working on the efficiency and that's where India has a really very strong thing to gain. I will still rate the Chinese ones, but comparable to that, there Indians have a very, very strong thing that they can really drive down the cost of production significantly by doing same type of things in a particular flow. There, India is really gaining. Even feeder factories in India, and they are doing pretty good, very good. Good point, they are selling to US. If you see that there is other product, transformer is just one part of the electrical infrastructure. There is a GIS also, the gas-insulated switchgears. That takes the product from India, manufactures in the US and (inaudible) US customers. India is already there, but those are not CTCs or PICCs. Those are the vacuum bottles, interrupters and all those things. That's one part of the whole overall GIS.

01:07:49] You mentioned that the Indian HVDC [high-voltage direct current] market will be one of the largest markets. In China, with future generations increasingly moving towards renewable energy and the need being clustered towards one geography, HVDC's application has skyrocketed. Do you expect India to also go down that path, with more and more renewables becoming a part of the grid?

Expert [01:08:31]: Yes, obviously. What happened in China, it's a very interesting thing. The whole of the electricity generation is done in the western part of China, Xinjiang [sic] and all those things. Then they have been transported to the demand part of it, which is the eastern part, like Shanghai, Beijing and all those things and that's where they have put all their generation capability and break it down. India, a bit different. In India, there are some places where the population is very less. India is, I would say, more equally divided. The renewables is also better. Even if there is a nuclear generation, there also, they can transport it to the longer distances because at the end of the day, they need more distributed load than China because in India, the load is required in all the states.

Now, the question is that generation cannot happen in all the states. It will be always happening on the coastal areas of where we have hydro power in the northern area or where we have a lot of nuclear power stations. You have to distribute those energies across India. That's why the Chinese move of HVDC is almost done. Now they get 1-2 orders, but India is going to come significantly. It's not only renewables. It is also the conventional ones if they want to transport for long distances because the generation, distribution and transmission are more spread in case of India than it was in China.

01:10:14] How would you compare the cost of distributed generation vs putting up an HVDC line and having concentrated generation?

Expert [01:10:43]: That's a good question. HVDC is costly. No doubt about it. From the distribution generation, HVDC is costly, but if you have to transport a large amount of power from the point of generation to point of consumption, HVDC is the only way of doing it. Now whether you do it in a classic way or in HVDC Light way, that's a different issue. Most of the people were initially doing in a classic way, but now they want to move to HVDC Light way, which are instead of 56 transformers, you only need 26 transformers. The cost has gone down. The thing is that how big is the demand? If you have just a small city to run, maybe distributed generation works for it. Just imagine, if you have to run industries, cities and everything, then the demand is high.

Then the distribution generation, the grid is not capable. You need power from somewhere else. That's where the HVDC comes into play to bring the power from where it is being generated to the point where it is being used. Just a simple thing, you build highways to transport the goods and you build big highways to transport the heavy goods. Does that mean they take out the opportunities of small roads and all those things? No. Can you bring a big truck to a small road? No. Similarly, HVDCs are those big super electric highways. At the point of the somewhere, it has to be collected to be distributed also. I think both are required, and both will be important.

Client 1 [01:12:24]: Do you expect to see a lot of HVDCs in the Indian market in the next 5-7 years?

Expert [01:12:33]: Announced, not implemented.

01:13:19] We keep hearing that industry heavyweights such as GE may be able to execute 2-3 HVDCs at best. Beyond that, it becomes difficult to manage. Is that correct? Could you add more people and capacity?

Expert [01:13:47]: No, no, no. You can add as much. First of all, HVDC, we have been always doing maybe at the most one a year. 56 transformers, one project. Now after adding, we have got the capacity to do two. That means 104 transformers, but beyond that requires massive investments. Even GE announced an expansion, but the thing is that the risk profile is very high. If one of the transformers in HVDC by any reason gets stuck up in the test room because of a failure, it blocks all the chain. We have to be very careful delivering more than two in a year because we cannot make more than two transformers a month, can you imagine. That's the maximum you can do.

Client 1 [01:15:01]: Is that the case even with the expanded capacity?

Expert [01:15:07]: No, with expanded obviously, if you expand the capacity, you can do four also. No, no. What I'm trying to say is that with the current capacity, all of us can only do two. If you put the average of all the three of us together, we hardly do 1.5. The speed is still lacking from the installed capacity because of various reasons. It can be material reasons, it can be resource reason and all those things.