2026.10.09 | GP | Consumer | Pest Control AI Shifts in Digital Sales

Associated:

RTO:LN

ROL

ECL

Anticimex International AB

Aptive Environmental, LLC

Hawx Services LLC

Pcm Growth, Llc

Viewpoint:

Supplier

Moderator: Brandon Weber (BW)

Neal Rummler (NR), Founder and CEO - Maverick Marketing & Consulting

SUMMARY

Overview

The discussion examined how generative AI search may be redirecting pest-control leads away from large national providers such as Rollins, Orkin, Rentokil, and Terminix toward smaller local operators. It also covered door-to-door sales, specialty-service upselling, customer retention, pricing pressure, and regional demand.

The expert operates a specialized outsourced sales team focused on termite protection, rodent exclusion, and insulation. These services generally require in-person inspections and are difficult to sell through call centers.

Key Insights

AI search tools appeared to favor highly reviewed local providers while presenting some national and door-to-door brands less positively. The expert believes consumers increasingly use AI to compare providers, validate prices, and identify contract risks. This greater transparency is pressuring specialty-service pricing. Consumers often prefer human customer service and may pay more to avoid automated support. Sales callers are increasingly asked to confirm that they are human. Digital leads are generally more attractive than door-to-door accounts because they retain better and carry lower acquisition and management burdens. Door-to-door sales remain important for companies pursuing rapid growth or a future sale, despite weak first-year economics and lower account quality. Pest control is recession-resistant rather than recession-proof. Demand is strongest where pests are unavoidable or household incomes are higher. The expert viewed some large operators’ AI spending as excessive, particularly for highly specialized customer-service and routing tools.

Competitive Landscape

Company or segment

Positioning and observations

Orkin and Terminix

Most recognizable national brands, but potentially disadvantaged by consumer preference for local service and human interaction.

Rollins

Rentokil

Reported weaker digital results in one-time services, although retention remained healthy.

Performance was described as acceptable, but additional business investment appeared necessary.

Aptive, Hawx, Bulwark, and Selah

Associated with high-volume subscription and door-to-door models that AI tools may portray unfavorably.

Local operators

Often surfaced prominently in AI recommendations due to local reputation, reviews, and perceived service quality.

Outsourced specialty sales

Positioned to produce larger contracts and stronger retention than technician or telephone upselling.

10/12/2026 at 05:57 AM UTC

Quantitative Insights

Metric

First-year retention with termite services attached

Detail

More than 90%

Typical industry first-year retention

Approximately 70%–75%

Door-to-door commissions

Sometimes exceed 100% of first-year revenue

Large-company AI software spending

Approximately $20,000–$30,000 monthly

Recent termite contract price reduction

$200–$300, or about 10%–15%

Typical outsourced termite contract

$1,700–$1,800 initial plus $30–$40 monthly

Typical in-house termite offer

$500–$700 initial plus $45–$50 monthly

Large inspection-based jobs

Approximately $10,000–$15,000

BW: My name is Brandon Weber. I'm an industrials analyst here at Guidepoint. I want to welcome you to our pest control third-party marketer on AI-induced shifts in digital sales teleconference, Neal Rummler. If you have any questions for our advisor, feel free to email ask@guidepoint.com. Again, the email address is ask@guidepoint.com. We should be able to get your questions, and they'll be asked anonymously. Before we begin, I'll introduce our advisor today, Neal. If you'd like to give us some background on yourself, then we can get started.

NR: Yeah, so I've been in the pest space since 2013. I started off as a door-to-door sales rep managing teams. I was at Moxie for 10 years, took a detour with law school in there, graduated, said no thanks, got back into pest and have my own marketing company now where I farm out sales talent to pest companies for upsells and specialty sales like termite, rodent exclusion, insulation.

BW: Great. Well, I really appreciate you taking the time. I thought of you, you know, you're more on the direct-to- consumer type marketing, but there definitely seems to be some shifts in the environment here on the digital side, and so I'm interested in how it's sort of having knock-on effects to kind of your world. But maybe just to start, what Rollins is saying, and Rentokil followed up later, that the digital results and the CAC has gone up a lot and the results have gotten much worse. And it sounds like a lot of that's because of this AI search tools where customers are using that. So I'm curious kind of what you've seen with respect to that trend, and then, you know, we'll get into the details.

NR: As far as people Googling a company on AI or Googling versus AI searching or what's the distinction there?

BW: Yeah, so I think what's happening is you will say you'll Google pest control in my area and John's pest control comes up. But now people are doing that straight into chat, and chat is maybe giving some indicators that it used to tell you Orkin, but now it's not telling you Orkin, for example. And so it sounds like the results have gotten worse, but I'm wondering, have you seen people coming more to you because they're trying to solve a digital marketing problem?

10/12/2026 at 05:57 AM UTC

NR: They come to me when they can't figure out how to sell themselves in-house or they're not selling at an optimal level. So you think of my business model as bringing in trained mercenaries, SEAL Team 6. I only have 6, 7 guys at a time that are very, very specialized and highly skilled. And so that's my business model when they want to retain their customers. What happens with me is we found across all the companies we've worked for, when the customer has termite bait stations tied to their general pest accounts, they retain it 90% plus in the first year which is huge compared to typical industry standards of around 70 to 75% retained. Within the first year, so that's where my value comes in... I'm able to make the account super sticky and then bring on additional revenue streams that help them pay off their debt if they're scaling or if they're not scaling, it just solves a lot of problems. And so that's when they come to me.

BW: But that's replacing an internal sales effort? They're reaching out or they're actually direct-to-consumer or door- knocking type business?

NR: They will do a couple of different avenues. So sometimes it's via inside sales, just random people calling on the phone. But over the phone, you're not able to get as high of a ticket. You're not able to get as high of contract values over the phone versus sending somebody out in person. Somebody in person, you're almost always going to be able to get a higher contract value. And I would say it's next to impossible to sell something like insulation over the phone. They can sell termite bait stations over the phone at a low ticket price, but a $10,000 to $15,000 job is not going to be sold over the phone. That's going to require an inspection. And so that's when my guys would go out. So they're doing inside sales, they're doing door-to-door approaches, they're doing technician upsells as well, but usually technicians, it's very rare that you're going to get a technician to produce at the same level as somebody who has door-to-door experience. And that's who I only source my guys from. That's my criteria. They have to have door-to- door experience to even work for me just because it doesn't get harder than door-to-door.

BW: Yeah. So on this digital shift on AI search, have you gotten a sense that some customers have had a digital problem and they're coming to you?

NR: They haven't specified that to me specifically, if they are. I know that they are trying to utilize and optimize search results because the retention on those accounts when it's You wouldn't call it organic growth, but it's like the retention on accounts of people coming to them versus a door-to-door is better, objectively better, because door-to-door guys, you know, they're desperate. Sometimes they'll say what they really need to say to get a sale. Maybe some half-truths were told, things or certain things were admitted or the customer didn't remember, little pressure involved to get them, you know, to get them to sign. And so because of that, the retention from door-to-door accounts aren't as good and they're paying out super high commissions to get these guys to even sell the accounts and so they're usually not profitable year 1 and so what they like to do is if they can get customers off of digital marketing that's their preference because it's just higher retention overall.

BW: Got it. And then people sort of mix of digital versus direct. Where do you think we are in the industry with that?

NR: So it depends on the company's goals. Some people want to flip really aggressively. And so in that scenario, they're willing to pay crazy high commissions. Some companies are paying 100% plus first year revenue for door-to- door teams. And they're willing to do that just because they know that they're going to get a crazy multiple off of their EBITDA after a few years. So they take a loss for a couple of years. But in that scenario, a lot of the times it's like a hamster wheel because the door-to-door accounts are not as high quality. And so they're kind of just spinning on this hamster wheel trying to replace the fall off every year. And so I would say overall owners, if they could just grow via digital marketing, that would be the preference because then you don't have to deal with the hassle and headache that comes with managing door-to-door teams. But there's people still hiring door-to-door teams actively, so that should tell you that it's not going away anytime soon because it solves a very specific problem for people with the goals of wanting to flip.

10/12/2026 at 05:57 AM UTC

BW: Yeah, I see. The AI optimization, you said offline we were talking about it a bit and that you had worked on that. What's the process for that?

NR: So I don't, I'm unique where I don't need to market my services because it's like the pest control industry is so just everyone knows everyone. And so it's just the only way I've grown is just by word of mouth. And I'll sometimes occasionally reach out on LinkedIn if I have a location where I have a local rep, and I was like, hey, have you ever considered doing this? So that's how I get new business. But where I try to use AI was with my setters that call the customers, and I tried to use AI voice agents, and that was not fun. But that's, I think, something that's a separate issue.

BW: How about any tools that are coming up on the just like optimization of routes for your teams and that has been useful?

NR: So I haven't really done that myself. I know companies are investing heavily in that type of software because they're trying to increase their edge and increase their margins. I know certain companies that are bigger, I think are over-invested in AI, personally, that's my opinion, where they're spending like $20,000, $30,000 a month on different AI softwares to optimize the customer experience and route efficiency, all of those things. And I'm just like, is that really necessary? Like there was one where I took a tour of a company and they said, yeah, we have this AI software that can detect the agitation level of a customer on the phone and if it gets to a certain point too high, then we transfer them to a supervisor because they're trying to save the account. And so I was like, what the heck? That seems like a little extra. But I'm just telling you that because stuff like that exists and I know people are using software like that.

BW: I mean, it's interesting that Rollins and Rentokil have talked about this digital marketing issue they're having, and it's a little surprising to me that those large, sophisticated companies would not have been able to adjust to shifts in digital quicker than small companies, but maybe that's not true, and then maybe over time, they'll catch up and then be dominant? I'm curious how you think about that.

NR: So I don't know, I'm not a tech guy, so I'm just spitballing here about what it could potentially be. My understanding of AI is when you plug it into Grok, Claude, or ChatGPT, it's just scrubbing Google, just like a Google search would, but I don't understand how it filters the results or why certain companies pop up first. But I think there's some consensus among Americans where I don't want to support the big corporations; I want to go and support the local, smaller companies because big corporations are evil. I think that's obviously hyperbole, but I think there's some of that happening, maybe, where they're actively looking for a smaller guy as opposed to a bigger player, and maybe those results are populating in the AI searches more. That's just a theory.

BW: Do you think they're populating the searches more rather than the consumer says they see Orkin and they say, "I don't want to support Orkin"?

NR: They might. It might show Orkin there, but maybe the reviews pop up and it's, "Oh, well, I'd rather..." I'd rather be with a local company. I'm going to actually just try it right here. I live in Utah.

BW: Yes please I'd be curious. While you do that, there's another kind of piece of the puzzle, which is that Rollins and their results, they said. The issue we're having is more on one-time business. Now, I don't know if they mean an incoming where someone says, I have a pest problem, come solve it for me. And, of course, they didn't hope to sell like a subscription or whatever, like a year contract. And then they said it was improving and then retention has been fine, they said. It wasn't a retention issue. And then Rentokil. So it's going to be slightly different. Their results were fine, but then they were like, we have to invest in the business, and that sounded more like a sales type approach. I'm not sure, as you search, I'm curious what you're seeing there.

10/12/2026 at 05:57 AM UTC

NR: So I just put a pest control near me in Utah County, and it says closest options, and it's 3... well, they did do. Let's see, Guardian Pest, which is a very small, Pink Pest Control. I've never heard of them. Edge Pest Control, it's got to be someone different because they used to be Sela or they used to be Edge and they changed to Sela. And then it's best reviewed county operators that cover Vineyard, All Guard Pest Control, Airy Pest Control, Eco Line Pest Control. And then it's saying skip the door knock brands unless you enjoy the script. Aptiv is headquartered in Provo and runs a high volume subscription model. Saela, Hawx, Bulwark, Orkin, and Terminix are the same model with a logo change. So it's dissing on these big companies. As I just did a search, that was my theory basically confirmed. It's showing me the local companies with the best reviewed, so what it's doing is it's filtering through the crap on Google because I've even experienced this... people are not as trusting of Google reviews as am I. Because I've gone through companies before and it's 4.9 stars, and then I just plug it into AI to see, "Hey, give me the rundown of this company." And it's, "Oh, this company is terrible," and I was like, "Wait, how do they have 4.9 stars?" And then I go through it and I see all these fake reviews where it's this random name, generic name, and it has 2 reviews. And then I try to see if there's any other indications that it's real, and it's very obvious it's fake, and I've actually reported companies to Google who have manufactured their reviews like that. And so maybe it's some of that where people don't trust Google and they trust AI more to filter it based on actual consumer reports and reviews. Because I literally just put it in.

BW: Where are they pulling those consumer reports and reviews from?

NR: I mean, okay, so it's like they list their sources here. So it's 32 sources. And let's see, search the web, pest control companies, Utah County, best pest control near vineyard reviews. These are all the searches that it ordered it to conduct and then I can click. Angie's List, Yellow Pages, Today's Homeowner, Growth Cycle, Yelp. It's pulling them from basically all of those other consumer sites other than Google. I don't see any Google reviews here. It's all these one-offs that I haven't heard of. PestControlReviews.com, Best Local Reviews, Reviews. BirdEye. Like I've never heard of any of these.

BW: I see. And so you think that that's what they're optimizing to get into the AI search is like those kind of different types of reviews.

NR: I don't know if they're paying for optimization or if it's just scrubbing the consumer reviews that people actively go on there and, you know, maybe they incentivize their customers. I know that some companies do that where they'll... hey, if you give me a good review, I get a $25 tip and then they get them to do it right then and there. I don't know the ins and outs of that, but... that's just what I'm seeing as I did it myself here.

BW: Yeah, I mean, that's interesting. I got your perspective on that. Now, if you have other brands of Rollins, like Home Team, right? It's not clear to people that's some big national brand or maybe it is, I don't know.

NR: I mean, if they're not in the pest control space, they wouldn't say Home Team is a big national brand. The only ones that people know are big national brands, I would say, are Orkin and Terminix. If you ask random people, it's like, "Hey, who are the biggest pest control?" Orkin and Terminix. Other than that, they're not going to be able to name probably too many other pest control companies.

BW: You think those companies in particular are having some issues?

NR: But I mean, we just saw right here, it's like it dissed on the big companies. And I didn't even tell it to diss on it. It's just like giving me this advice.

BW: I mean, when you're saying this, you're saying it just featured a lot of more smaller local brands.

NR: But it said, "Skip the door knock brands unless you enjoy the script." And then it's like Aptiv is headquartered in

10/12/2026 at 05:57 AM UTC

Provo and runs a high volume subscription machine. Selah, Hawx, Bulwark, Orkin, and Terminix are the same model with a logo change. Initial at a discount, 12-month offer. So that's where I'm saying, it's like they're knocking these big companies. And I think that's a shared sentiment... I would say people generally have that opinion. It's like, "Oh, I'm going to get a better service if I go with a smaller company," and they don't want to deal with the corporate AI chatbots where it's like, "Dude, I just want to call somebody and have a human being answer the phone." I do think that there is some pushback there where people, especially older people, get so frustrated with the AI stuff they just want to call somebody where it's like, "How you doing today, sir?" And that means they will pay a premium for that over the AI stuff, and so maybe I think that's probably why you're seeing some of the struggles there.

BW: But this is pretty recent. This is something that only this year you've been experiencing?

NR: When my setters call the customers, they get asked this multiple times a day on the calls, "Are you a robot? Are you a robot? Okay, good." And then they're relieved when it's, "No, I'm not a robot. I'm a college kid. I live in Idaho." They're like, "Okay, great, great, great." They're relieved to hear that. And so you're hearing that sentiment, yes, because AI has kind of taken off in the past 2 years. I mean, I get frustrated when I'm a titanium level elite with Marriott and it takes me 15 minutes to get a hold of somebody on hold. People don't like AI, I would say overall when it comes to customer service.

BW: Okay, I mean, this is a helpful look. Anything you'd call out in the macro environment, just willingness to buy pest control, weeks of inflation, anything like that?

NR: Price sensitivity with consumers. I mean, I think it's recession resistant. I wouldn't call it recession proof unless you're in certain areas like Utah, you don't really need pest control year-round. You don't even need it really ever because it's just higher mountains, not as much humidity. But I would say Texas, Louisiana, it's closer to being essential just because if you don't, you're going to have roaches, you're going to have fleas and ticks. It's not going to be fun. You will have bugs in your houses in the South, in the Midwest. So I would say it's less price sensitivity in areas like that. And then just where people have money. I was talking to this high level guy who wanted, he's like, "Yeah, I'm probably going to start my own pest control company in California." And I was like, "Why do you want to go to California?" He's like, "Dude, it's really easy to keep people happy. There aren't that many bugs there. And it's a small bill that blends into their credit card statement." And so it just makes sense. The cancellation rate's so much lower in California. And I was like, I would have never guessed that, but you know, he's been all over the country and that's where he chose. He's like, "I want to go there." So areas where it's higher household incomes, like East Coast, West Coast, no, not so much price sensitivity. And then areas where it's high volume of pests as well. Somewhere like Utah, you're going to see more attrition because there's just not as many bugs, in my opinion.

BW: Right now, have you seen any shifts? Fuel prices?

NR: Started going down. I think overall it was a down year for that's the general consensus as I've talked to my business buddies. Everyone had a down year, but I think it's true of all industries with the war and things going on with the economy right now.

BW: What do you mean by down year? Like that's a retention of workers?

NR: Retention compared to previous years, profitable, like they're not as profitable this year. They haven't done as... they didn't grow as much.

BW: Yeah, I see. Got it. So kind of down is like sort of relative to whatever expectations they had, not necessarily absolutely?

10/12/2026 at 05:57 AM UTC

NR: Yeah, relative, it does depend on the location. Because it's, you know, if I'm hurting, and I don't have bugs in my house in the wintertime, it's like, yeah, I'm probably going to cancel that bill.

BW: Yeah. But you're not seeing more pushback a little bit just because of the macro, that's kind of what you're hearing generally?

NR: Yeah, I'd say like if you're looking at the prices my guys are charging, they've come down a little bit overall on what they're selling. And so they've had to adjust their prices down a little bit to make sure that they actually get installed when they're selling termite bait stations.

BW: That's mostly termite?

NR: It's mostly termite. Rodents, people care more about that because it's gross and it's more visible than termite. And so, I would say there's less price sensitivity on the insulation, the heavier, the higher ticket items, that might seem counterintuitive. But when you show somebody a dead rat and feces in their attic, they're like, "Okay, what do we have to do? This is gross," as opposed to termite where people usually wait until it's an issue and then the damage is already done. So yes.

BW: So you're generally, you're kind of the upscale team on a company's base business, base pest business, and you're saying I'm going to go in and help you upsell them the termite?

NR: Yes, yes, and increase their retention exactly.

BW: Yeah, got it. It's interesting. If you look at Rollins, they separate out resi, then they do ancillary separately, and then they have commercial, of course. If you look at the organic growth for them... Resi, it's stepped down quarter of a quarter from Q1 from 4.2% organic growth to 3.6%. And ancillary stepped down from 9.8% to 8.9%. It's still decent organic growth, but it's not what it was.

NR: Yeah.

BW: Are you talking termites? NR: I was just going to circle back to door to door. During my door to door days, the big companies like Orkin and Terminix were the easiest ones to switch over just because of that corporate distaste of, oh, they're a big corporation. You could just be like, "Hey," you could play the local card pretty easily and get people to switch on that angle of, "Hey, we're local, we're going to help you out." They're not going to get sent to a chat bot or AI agent.

BW: But you're not in the switching people business now?

NR: I was three years ago. So yeah, I haven't been in that game for about three years. But I don't think that's changed.

BW: Pricing is down, what does that mean? What was the price now and what was the price last year?

NR: I would say our average contract value has dipped between $200 and $300 overall for a termite contract. So not crazy, maybe 10-15% reduction in price.

BW: I mean, that's a big number, but I guess this is an add-on kind of service.

NR: Compared to what technicians charge, we're already way higher. The way my model makes sense is it's a much higher initial plus a monthly recurring and in order to pay my commissions and everything on my overhead that initial needs to be higher for my business model to make sense. But if there's someone doing it in-house, they have

10/12/2026 at 05:57 AM UTC

technicians trying to upsell these bait stations for like $500 to $700 with like a $45, $50 monthly recurring for the termite. People are latching on to that a lot more than, you know, $2,400 initial or, you know, $1,800 initial. And my guys, I'd say the initial that they're typically charging is about $1,700 to $1,800 with about a $30 to $40 monthly recurring.

BW: So your ACV is like $2,000 up front and then what's your recurring?

NR: $2,000 total, $2,000 total if you include the recurring. Yeah.

BW: Yeah, okay.

NR: So it's already significantly higher than what I would say it's like, yeah, it's almost double what an in-house operation would do. I'm just talking about my internal organization of what I've seen over the past year is guys have had to haircut their prices a bit to get them to get installed.

BW: Yeah, okay. And you feel like that's more macro or there's some competitive features of that?

NR: I think it's because people are more squeezed because of inflation, you know, it's just like when things are getting more expensive, it's like everything is going to get a haircut.

BW: Any sense what the competitive environment's like? Are you seeing more door knockers, more people?

NR: It's pretty cutthroat in the bigger cities. It's pretty cutthroat. And if you're going to a big DFW area, Dallas, it's like there's so many guys in those bigger cities. And so some owner operators are transitioning, oh, maybe I should transition to smaller B cities where there's still a population to support a branch, but it's not as competitive. It's not as knocked. And the top talented guys that have teams, that's where they want to go as well because so much of the battle in door-to-door is just getting people to answer the door. And so when you go to an area that hasn't been knocked or has barely been knocked, people are like, hey, what's going on? How can I help you? As opposed to you're knocking a city in a suburb of Dallas, it's like they don't even answer, if they do they're pissed off. And so it's just more of a grind in the bigger cities, I'd say... I'm BW: And that's incrementally true, in the last year, or this is kind of the same as it ever was?

NR: Not in that game anymore, so I couldn't accurately say, right? It's just what I'm hearing secondhand; it's hearsay. But I have talked to a few guys that are still in the game where they're just like, "Yeah, I just kind of want to go to this." They're imagining this never-never land that's never been knocked because it's brutal. You know, if people are answering the door, it's like you're the fifth guy here. It wears on you no matter how thick your skin is, and then you go and experience what it's like, and you drive 1 hour and 15 minutes outside of a city center. Those were the best areas to knock for sales reps because they don't get knocked as much because they're so far away from the city center. And so you're seeing more of that in the industry right now, I think, where guys have that preference. Obviously, owners want route density. They want stuff that's close to the branch office because that increases their bottom line. So it's a little bit of a push and pull between the owners and the sales reps to keep them happy. But yeah, no, I would say it's still very competitive on the door-to-door side.

BW: And then, in your world, what you're doing, are customers saying, "Oh, I've been called before?" NR: What customers will do sometimes if they're intelligent is they will ask AI, hey, what's a fair price for termite bait stations? And then it'll pull up the pricing. And so I think that's also a reason why guys have had to have a haircut is people have instant comparison tools. Whereas before, the reason car salesmen did so well in the 50s and 60s before the internet was just because people didn't know. They had no idea what a good deal was or what a good deal wasn't. And now people can walk into a car dealership and they know more about the vehicle than the salesman does.

10/12/2026 at 05:57 AM UTC

They can figure out what the invoice is pretty easily and so I think some of that's happening where the curtains, the veil is being lifted a little bit and people can see, "Oh, I'm getting taken advantage of," versus, "You quoted me $1800. AI says that this is the range in price. Why are you $500 more?" I've had guys talk to me about that, how to overcome that. And so that also, that just came to mind as another contributing factor of why price points have come down a little bit.

BW: Yeah, interesting. Have you heard that on base pests from people?

NR: Not specifically just because I'm not in that world anymore.

BW: Yeah. I got it. Okay. Is there anything you've seen from Terminix or Rentokil?

NR: What do you mean seen?

BW: Just competitively, you know, they're out there changes in their Terminix has been talking about doing these smaller localized branches.

NR: I have a buddy who is marketing for them in a city in Tennessee. And I think he is in Knoxville, which is a lesser known, smaller city in Tennessee. His complaint to me was people are kind of broke here. They do not have as much money as some of the other cities, which has made it more challenging to sell. He did call me and he is like, "Hey, Neil, how do you sell termite after you sell them on GPC?" Because with Terminix, it is a bundle of 99 a month. He is like, "Yeah, people are not biting on that." After I have sold them on GPC, they are just like, "Yeah, I think I am going to wait on the termite because it is just too much in their mind." So that is the only direct feedback I have gotten in the past month from somebody working with the termite.

BW: Yeah, that sounds more like this macro kind of narrative and isn't being specific there that I know. And anything about Orkin?

NR: I mean, Orkin, Rollins, nothing specific that comes to mind on Orkin now.

BW: In your little search, you mentioned Saela that was the last Rollins deal.

NR: Yes, it was.

BW: Yeah, so it is interesting that jumped out as I would not have thought that that is one that people would call a national brand.

NR: It is definitely a bigger company. Hawx was in there, Aptiv was in there. Moxie wasn't in there, but it also didn't pop up in the search results anywhere. Moxie didn't. But it's also showing me prices. Which is... I didn't get into that. It said, ballpark if they won't quote on the phone, initial opt-in 150 to 300, quarterly after that, roughly 80 to 150 a visit. Get 3 written quotes, demand canceled terms in writing. So it's coaching me as a consumer how to not get scammed or how to not get taken advantage of too, which is really interesting. I think it's just more education to the consumer where I don't know how many people are doing this where they're plugging it into AI. But like I said, I think the intelligent ones who are using it regularly for work or, you know, personal use, why wouldn't they put it into AI to compare the offer or what they're being quoted to make sure it's fair? I think that if it's not happening, it will continue to happen more, I think, as it becomes more mainstream.

BW: Yeah, it's a pretty interesting result, actually, that you're pointing out.

NR: I mean, push back on me. I'm just telling you what I'm seeing from my perspective.

10/12/2026 at 05:57 AM UTC

BW: No, you have a theory and you played it out and it's because my thinking was, you know, as I was thinking all through I was like, oh this is just because I said I talked to that local guy and he's like, "Well, a year later my digital is about the same. CAC has gone up but not like a crazy amount, but the change is that I was 100% Google last year, now I'm 50-50 between kind of AI-type things and Google" and he's back to normal. But Rollins and these guys, they're not there yet, and so I was like, "Oh well it will just be a shift and then people will, you know, they're having less success in digital so they'll go do more other types of marketing and then it'll normalize." But if you're coaching consumers and you're downplaying big brands, then maybe not.

NR: Let me try Claude. I have a subscription for Claude, so let's see if it's any different. Pest control near me in Utah County. See if this is any different. That last one was with Grok. Okay, first ones, Atlas Pest Control, Turbo Pest Control, Nature's Balance, Orem. Good if you want to avoid contracts, All Guard, Accurate, Niche Picks. Nothing regarding Rollins, any of the big brands, 0.

BW: Is it coaching you as well?

NR: No, it's just that I'd skip the prime American Fork. It only has 4 reviews. If you're sizing these up as competitors rather than shopping for service, I can pull their pricing, service areas, and whether each one runs door-to-door teams. So I guess maybe a little bit of coaching, but these are all very small local companies that it brought up here. I've done the same thing to bolster my theory. I asked, hey, where can I get some lumber? I wanted some walnut to do some woodworking, and Home Depot doesn't have walnut. It's more of a specialty wood, and it gave me small local shops to go to. You could special order from Home Depot or special order on these sites online, or you could go drive down to Spanish Fork, which is 15 minutes from you, and buy from this local guy who's been in business 5 years, 5-star reviews. So I've also seen it not only in pest control, I've seen it for other smaller industries like woodworking, for example. AI hates the big corporations, I guess. I don't know.

BW: I don't know why. I'm wondering why I haven't heard this in other areas more. Now, we cover big publicly traded companies basically. And so in my industrial world, service companies like HVAC, we haven't heard this so much. There's some tech companies that used to be tied into Google search that have clearly shown the effect of search going to AI. But this big brand effect makes me wonder how easy it will be to rejigger this whole thing.

NR: I don't know. I'm not a tech guy. I'm just kind of giving you what I'm seeing and what my gut was, and I think my gut was kind of right.

BW: Now, I don't know if you can then start training the system that big corporations are good or not?

NR: Yeah, I mean, the truth is going to be programmed.

BW: The companies making all these machines are big corporations, so it's interesting.

NR: Yeah, it's like, how do you retrain AI to spit out the bigger companies? I don't know.

BW: Yeah, but maybe they'll figure it out. Okay, interesting. Areas you're selling in, do you find any big differences in the trends like that pricing you were talking about or the macro?

NR: If they're a bigger city, you can get higher contracts. So like in a Raleigh, North Carolina, compared to Tulsa, Oklahoma, you're going to get higher contracts in Raleigh just because there's more economic opportunity, more jobs, all those reasons.

BW: And are prices pressured more in the weaker markets?

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NR: I'd say it's more consumer price sensitivity in the smaller markets. And so the market price is according to what the local consumer can afford or is willing to pay.

BW: Yeah, okay. Well, Neil, let's leave it here. This has been interesting. It was a little hands-on demonstration.

NR: Yeah. I mean, I don't think I gave you what you wanted to hear, but I just... I gave you what I saw.

BW: You know, I've tried a couple different angles on this. I've tried local guys who are fiddling with digital. I've talked to some bigger players. You're kind of in your own niche of this and it's interesting to see how it intersects with what you're doing. So I appreciate it. And yeah, we'll have something to talk about down the road, I'm sure. And until then, NR: Yeah.

BW: Well, best of luck with it all.

NR: Yeah. Likewise. Thank you.

BW: All right, take care. Bye-bye.

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10/12/2026 at 05:57 AM UTC